2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)

[Chaos]

The Ducati one definitely made qualifying almost meaningless last week. Jorge Martin looked like he was shot out of a cannon. Still, part of the sport is tech, and if Ducati does it better, it's up to the others to catch up, I think...

I am generally in favour of research and development. But the holeshot device only serves a specific purpose, and to your point i hadn't considered, really makes qualifying a little less important (at least for those with a better hole shot device).

For things like engine development, or chassis development, I am in favour of it, much as it might make the field more spread out. For something as specific as a hole shot device, I am not in favour it. I don't know how to articulate what that line is between 'good' and 'not good' advances though.

MotoGP have made these judgement calls in the past though - they did standardize the ECU, and that had a much greater impact than a holeshot device would.

 

[Priller]

I am generally in favour of research and development. But the holeshot device only serves a specific purpose, and to your point i hadn't considered, really makes qualifying a little less important (at least for those with a better hole shot device).

For things like engine development, or chassis development, I am in favour of it, much as it might make the field more spread out. For something as specific as a hole shot device, I am not in favour it. I don't know how to articulate what that line is between 'good' and 'not good' advances though.

MotoGP have made these judgement calls in the past though - they did standardize the ECU, and that had a much greater impact than a holeshot device would.

Yeah, I get it. I'm of two minds: on the one hand, I want qualifying to be meaningful. It is a skill, and riders should be rewarded for turning the fastest lap. But on the other hand, if some slower riders shoot to the front, it adds interest by forcing the faster riders to work through the pack. There's nothing more dull than a flag to flag win, where the race just stretches the field as they qualified.

As it stands, the Ducati unit is massively superior, hopefully Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki get theirs working better.

 

[Chaos]

ok...so... Rossi qualified 2nd last. Usual issues related to rear grip - but none of the other Yamaha riders appear to have the same issue...

So.... what is the issue? Rossi has been talking about rear grip issues for about 3 years now, which i think might have had more credibility a few years ago, but the other yamaha riders dont talk about it and are winning races. I have to believe Rossi's quality has fallen, but is it all him? It's hard to watch.

 

[Winales_2017]

I have to believe Rossi's quality has fallen, but is it all him? It's hard to watch.

I have to say the same, I was never a fan of his, but to see the guy languishing in the back cannot be good for his or Yamaha's brand; I mean he will always be the face of MotoGP even when he retires and runs a team or commentates, but this is just sad now. He is on the grid, with full Yamaha backing (Franco has old spec) but one cannot help but ask: at what cost? Franco was 2nd in last year's championship!

Also, I cannot help but feel this why the Petronas guys didn't want to take him on without making massive compromises and demanding a lot from Yamaha, they have way more talent waiting to be brought up from Moto2/3 that could do better at this point. But it goes to show that Motorsports is at the end of the day a massive marketing campaign and what sells matters more than results on the track.

Anyhow, that was a gripping qualy; it looks like another Ducati and Yamaha show down, I still think Mir will be in the top 5 and I had hoped one of the Honda bikes would be there, too but sadly only P11 for Bridal.

HRC must be on pins and needles waiting for Portimao for Marc to come back as they been absolutely no where this year so far; it's not a Honda track, but to not even get their both works bikes into Q1 (note: all 4 have HRC backing) must be a big blow to the Honda bigwig's pride; they must now think their money is well spent in securing Marc for 4 years, because no one else can tame that violent machine effectively to get decent results let alone win championships.

Jorge is playing down his results for Sunday, which is probably the smart thing to do but I'd personally like to see a Zarco, Martin and Vinales Podium. Johann has fought long and hard to regain his reputation since leaving KTM mid-season, in what looked like the end of his career after doing so well in Tech3, so I want to see his backflips again.

Ducati must be incredibly ****** off that none of its works bikes are looking in contention for the championship on a track pretty much made for that engine and are being out-shined by the satellite team, much like how Yamaha has felt these past 2 seasons. I cannot help but feel thier is something really wrong within their management, as the same thing happened with Petrux and Dovi. But apparently Miller had a crazy recovery that was not caught on TV:

Prediction: If the same windy conditions persists - 2 Ducatis, 1 Yamaha, Mir Top 5.

 

[Priller]

Well.

Moto3 didn't disappoint this week...

 

[Chaos]

Well.

Moto3 didn't disappoint this week...

That was an understatement!

Fellas, if there was ever a moto3 to watch, this was it!

 

[BigEvilDoer]

That was an understatement!

Fellas, if there was ever a moto3 to watch, this was it!

Methinks the next alien level rider has quite possibly been revealed.

 

[Priller]

Well, Qatar definitely delivered a great start to the season. I unjinxed Quatararo by not picking him, great race by him. If he'd been beaten again, it might've set the pecking order at Yamaha sooner than expected. Vinales tried hard, but getting around both Pramac Ducati's was always going to be a tall order.

Not impressed with Miller's reaction to a hard pass by Mir. Lost his head, lost a bunch of places, and did a genuinely dangerous dirty in retaliation. Not smart and not cool. The reaction in the Ducati garage suggested they weren't impressed either.

KTM showed some fight, with Oliviera trying the medium he was so critical of last week. Honda, not so much. Everyone is praising Pol for being within 7 seconds of the winner, but I can't remember a time in my life when Honda was last in the constructors' standings after two rounds. Aprilia is ahead with two bikes and one rider painfully out of his depth.

Sad to see Aleix make a series of mistakes as the race wore on, losing 7 spots as a consequence. It was genuinely thrilling to see an Aprilia dicing for the lead, even if it only lasted a few laps. I have to wonder where they'd be with someone like Dovizioso on board. The more I read, the less likely that appears to be, but I can dream. Savadori is so far off the pace I wonder what the point is. I could ask Rossi the same question...

Off to Europe and the real racing. Don't expect the Pramac speed advantage will be as helpful at Portimao. Curious to see if Oliviera is as dominant as last year, and if Yamaha can find more consistency on weekends where things aren't working. I've never been a big Yamaha fan, but I'd love to see consistent quality from someone...

 

[TK4]

It's time for VR46 to pack it in.

 

[Priller]

It's time for VR46 to pack it in.

Losail is enough of an outlier that it may be a salvageable season, but it's definitely not looking promising.

 

[TK4]

Losail is enough of an outlier that it may be a salvageable season, but it's definitely not looking promising.

Didn't he say that after the first 2 races a decision would be made ? He should step away with his head held high.

 

[bastak]

Not impressed with Miller's reaction to a hard pass by Mir. Lost his head, lost a bunch of places, and did a genuinely dangerous dirty in retaliation. Not smart and not cool. The reaction in the Ducati garage suggested they weren't impressed either.

Likewise. I can't believe that was shrugged off as a racing incident! Looked v dangerous and the officials just let it slide.

 

[Robbo]

Mir making contact at turn 10 pushing Miller wide. Thankfully no one went down.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Robbo]

Entering the final straight prior to the next incident. Mir out wide and Miller on the racing line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Robbo]

A better view...Miller has track position.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Priller]

Freeze frames can show anything. Mir's pass was hard, but he immediately apologised. Coming off the apex, Miller took two solid looks to make sure it was Mir and then tried to barge him off the track. His gesture after proved to me that it was intentional. If you're side-by-side on corner exit, especially onto track as wide as the front straight at Losail, that's no excuse to slam into the side of someone. Mir was on the rumble strip, but that's still the track.

I get that Miller was frustrated, and had been banged about a few times up to that point, but there's a difference between hard racing and riding into someone on purpose. Struck me as someone having a disappointing day and having a bit of a temper tantrum as a result. Other Aussies have had a similar edge, but if Doohan or Stoner did something similar, it'd have been a similar pass to what Mir pulled, not a pointless fit costing places. Shows he's easily rattled. Not impressed at all.

Here's a link with the video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/mk0q7q

 

[Robbo]

I’m not here looking for a fight . I just happen to see things differently.

Consider that Mir just a few corners prior ran into Miller and then Mir goes wide onto the main straight.

Perhaps Miller, on a faster bike, believes he can hold the racing line and pass Mir (after all he just ran wide and 4 corners earlier, he couldn’t stop or turn quick enough to avoid hitting him) and Rins had just run deep in the same final corner. Perhaps Miller is watching Mir because he’s passing him and sees he is still off the racing line and hopes he stays wide. Mir most likely believes he can also catch and pass Rins and...

Now watch the video you posted without the volume and see who hit who. To me, Mir tried to barge his way back onto the racing line and Miller and his Ducati take a big hit (you see the bike going sideways and Miller kicked out of the seat). I can only imagine Miller is ****** that Mir hit him again.

Jack is no angel but neither is Mir.

At that level of racing, I don’t expect them to give an inch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Priller]

I’m not here looking for a fight . I just happen to see things differently.

Fair enough, not looking for a fight either, but definitely respectfully disagree...

Consider that Mir just a few corners prior ran into Miller and then Mir goes wide onto the main straight.

I don't think he's wide, just using the whole track. These guys are on the rumble strip regularly, it's part of the track.

Perhaps Miller, on a faster bike, believes he can hold the racing line and pass Mir (after all he just ran wide and 4 corners earlier, he couldn’t stop or turn quick enough to avoid hitting him) and Rins had just run deep in the same final corner. Perhaps Miller is watching Mir because he’s passing him and sees he is still off the racing line and hopes he stays wide. Mir most likely believes he can also catch and pass Rins and...

Perhaps Miller, having been passed hard (for which Mir raised a leg in apology) saw red and lost his composure. Perhaps Miller, feeling the pressure of being so-called number one factory rider and getting soundly beaten two weeks in a row by both his teammate and the satellite team, lost the plot a bit.

Now watch the video you posted without the volume and see who hit who. To me, Mir tried to barge his way back onto the racing line and Miller and his Ducati take a big hit (you see the bike going sideways and Miller kicked out of the seat). I can only imagine Miller is ****** that Mir hit him again.

Watch the other riders and their trajectory. The racing line is to cut back across the track, from left to right. Mir tries to do the same, but Miller is trying to push him off by staying left. Just because his bike moves more doesn't mean he didn't initiate the contact.

Jack is no angel but neither is Mir.

At that level of racing, I don’t expect them to give an inch.

It's definitely possible that Miller didn't alter his line to stay on the outside of the track on purpose. Maybe it was as accidental as Mir's move seemed to be. But it looks to me like a rider who wasn't just racing hard but someone who felt hard done by and was going out of his way to initiate contact on a part of the track where it wasn't called for and wasn't productive. The only way the Suzukis and Yamahas were getting by the Ducatis was early enough in the lap to get a gap before the straight. Mir's move was definitely over the line, but it was motivated by racing not revenge. There's a big difference to me.

There's obviously enough of a grey area for no discipline to be meted out (likely mitigated by Mir's bump on Miller in the first place). But it certainly wasn't a good look for Miller, especially considering how he placed. He's got some work to do to hang onto the number one rider spot. Needing surgery for arm pump isn't going to help, either.

 

[bastak]

In my opinion, Mir's move on Miller at Turn 10 was ambitious and risky. Simon Crafar noted that with the Ducati's speed at Qatar this was one of the few turns where the Suzuki could attempt a pass. So it seemed like Mir committed, was in the wrong and immediately apologized with the leg up - not sure if Miller would have seen that apology. Regardless, seems like a genuine racing incident to me.

As for the front straight incident, I don't think Miller had no option but to ride that line - he chose to, aware of Mir's position. On a different line Miller likely would have overtaken Mir with the Ducati's speed on the straight anyway. It seemed to me like retribution, and if so, dangerous and unsportsmanlike behaviour.

 

[Chaos]

Interesting pattern happening at Ducati - the Pramac team is challenging the factory team for results. This started in 2020 and is happening again this year.

I wonder if it's rider quality, or a different environment to work in. Dovi and Petrucci's exits from Ducati were pretty unceremonious which speaks to a meat grinder of an environment, whereas Pramac seems loose and jovial.

In any case, they're all factory riders, so Ducati will take whomever they think will challenge the most, and both Zarco and Martin have shown something that Bagnaia and Miller now have to respond to, else you might see a rider promotion and swap next season (and maybe even this season if the standings are extreme).