3 wins compared to Hayes with 8.
31 bikes on a grid in Canada, that would be nice to see.......
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2015 SOAR Rulebook including Ontario & Quebec Championship Point Structure
- Thread starter kneedragger88
- Start date
3 wins compared to Hayes with 8.
31 bikes on a grid in Canada, that would be nice to see.......
GRAYZ
Well-known member
Except that there has to be another racer in your example to complete the podium. If he finished 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd and 3rd, he/she would win with 216 points (and more likely 2nd in the final 2 races, totalling 222 points). Moral of the story, don't crash!
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N3WMAN
Well-known member
Just an FYI you might want to update the SOAR classes page on the website. It does not have the new classes and still lists the Pro6 Dunlop Challenge.
http://soaracing.ca/html/soar_classes.html
http://soaracing.ca/html/soar_classes.html
You obviously don't know Fred. He is a qualifying specialist. Just no stamina.
Seriously, you can fiddle with the math as you like, but your hypothetical middle rider who competes every round and finishes just ahead of Bob every time is still winning the championship against someone who he never beat once on track and who was less than perfect exactly once all season. Opinions will differ but my opinion is that this is a points structure that favors perfectly consistent mediocrity over near-perfect awesomeness. And this is coming from someone who is decidedly mediocre but looks up to those who aren't.
Realistically my best chance at winning a Pro Superbike title is to commit to all 6 rounds. I'll ride on scrubs and aim for 3rd and 4th place finishes and just hope that the perennial favourites suffer some sort of misfortune. A mechanical problem that keeps them out of a race, a wedding they must attend, etc. I could be that guy that wins a championship while never winning a race.
Lol.
boyoboy
Well-known member
Is this the same points structure RACE used in the past? The points structure is extremely odd to me...
As of the 2014 season RACE was not using this new points structure.
2014 was
1st - 25pts
2nd - 20pts
3rd - 17pts.............
GRAYZ
Well-known member
Lol, ok for sure... wasn't meant to be a prod, but I was just continuing your hypothetical scenario. And I don't disagree but at the same time it cuts both ways. Tell Rossi he didn't earn second place in the 2014 championship
Anyway, I've seen this happen in the RACE series even with the old points structure, specifically Sportsman (now Lost Era). Those who show up to more races win the championship even though they are probably only the 5th fastest rider in the class.
But looking at the upcoming season let's work with what we have and trust that those who have been running the sport have a good idea. It seems the main target is larger grids. I think this points structure will help that. I'm sure everyone (including SOAR and RACE officials) will be looking at the final points tally and decide if it worked as planned. If it seems unfair, I'm sure there will be a few meetings to make things better. Call me a "gas tank half full" kind of guy...
I'll cut you some slack since you get a year older tomorrow.
Lol, ok for sure... wasn't meant to be a prod, but I was just continuing your hypothetical scenario. And I don't disagree but at the same time it cuts both ways. Tell Rossi he didn't earn second place in the 2014 championship
Anyway, I've seen this happen in the RACE series even with the old points structure, specifically Sportsman (now Lost Era). Those who show up to more races win the championship even though they are probably only the 5th fastest rider in the class.
But looking at the upcoming season let's work with what we have and trust that those who have been running the sport have a good idea. It seems the main target is larger grids. I think this points structure will help that. I'm sure everyone (including SOAR and RACE officials) will be looking at the final points tally and decide if it worked as planned. If it seems unfair, I'm sure there will be a few meetings to make things better. Call me a "gas tank half full" kind of guy...
Ok let me clarify just a little. First off this is not the structure used by either series last year. The parameters were that it needed to pay much deeper in the field.This is done with the runoffs in mind. We wanted to pay in many different ways in order for people to be able to obtain the "magic number" and be included. Yes its geared towards participation for good reason RACE is almost dead and needs numbers plain and simple, if we did not do this in 2015 there would be NO RACING at all in Shannonville please keep this in mind while critiquing.Our goal is to help our sport and in turn the racers. Like this or not our goal is to do this in Ontario and Quebec this season and include ALL regional series across the country next season using the same platform. We have been talking with a few already and they are as excited as we are about this.
It was asked by someone regarding CSBK and no it was not considered. Their rulebook is a moving target that is primarily based upon who is paying them from one season to the next. The other big stumbling block is a dyno based hp limit. Its unenforceable and easily defeated using electronic trickery making it all but useless. So why mimic it unless we have a dyno present at the regionals and that wont happen sooooo if you want to build a CSBK legal bike its still legal at regionals. If you want to build a monster to win the regionals you can but thats unlikely to happen.
Now keep in mind this is our first try at this. Its possibly going to take some tweaking however we need to start somewhere and this is where it is. Chris and Michelle from RACE came up with the points and I have no issue with it. Its is 100% geared towards participation and so it should be. This is regional club racing and we want bikes on the grid. Ultimately its better for all involved if its this way and its critical for RACE if they are to continue at all. Not to mention EVERY race series I know of consistency always trumps and in my eye so it should.
Just for a minute imagine all regional series across Canada linked the same way. We can then approach sponsors with something to sell (and so can you). They can sponsor bike racing and get true national coverage for their dollars seven series in six provinces from coast to coast and 40 plus weekends of racing over seven months. In turn riders can make some purse money. You can go to any track for any series and race in your regular class with consistent rules. Lets face it the racers that race CSBK are well.........You! its not like there are different riders running CSBK than support regionals so I propose if you can win the runoffs against the best racers from every regional series you have just beat the best in the country.
It was asked by someone regarding CSBK and no it was not considered. Their rulebook is a moving target that is primarily based upon who is paying them from one season to the next. The other big stumbling block is a dyno based hp limit. Its unenforceable and easily defeated using electronic trickery making it all but useless. So why mimic it unless we have a dyno present at the regionals and that wont happen sooooo if you want to build a CSBK legal bike its still legal at regionals. If you want to build a monster to win the regionals you can but thats unlikely to happen.
Now keep in mind this is our first try at this. Its possibly going to take some tweaking however we need to start somewhere and this is where it is. Chris and Michelle from RACE came up with the points and I have no issue with it. Its is 100% geared towards participation and so it should be. This is regional club racing and we want bikes on the grid. Ultimately its better for all involved if its this way and its critical for RACE if they are to continue at all. Not to mention EVERY race series I know of consistency always trumps and in my eye so it should.
Just for a minute imagine all regional series across Canada linked the same way. We can then approach sponsors with something to sell (and so can you). They can sponsor bike racing and get true national coverage for their dollars seven series in six provinces from coast to coast and 40 plus weekends of racing over seven months. In turn riders can make some purse money. You can go to any track for any series and race in your regular class with consistent rules. Lets face it the racers that race CSBK are well.........You! its not like there are different riders running CSBK than support regionals so I propose if you can win the runoffs against the best racers from every regional series you have just beat the best in the country.
But if your making a series that's across Canada isn't that just going to just essentially be another national series except everyone just races on the same track as usual only to be invited to another track at the end.
I'm not knocking or trying to discreit what you guys are trying to do but I don't see how it's going to make the grids any bigger. It's still the same people racing.
My comment about the rules wasn't so much about HP but the components allowed to be changed ie forks and calipers.
I'm not knocking or trying to discreit what you guys are trying to do but I don't see how it's going to make the grids any bigger. It's still the same people racing.
My comment about the rules wasn't so much about HP but the components allowed to be changed ie forks and calipers.
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Well the way I see it is the whole sport needs a jump start. We have regionals that for the most part are self supporting but there is no "next" step. The nationals used to be that step however in my mind they are on life support. Its a business model that doesnt work it did but doesnt anymore. The powers who be continue flogging that two legged half dead mule expecting different but every season it becomes less and less. I am tired of waiting for it to change. Regional series struggle for a large part because there is no next step. When I say that I mean a reasonable step. Sure you can ride CSBK however its a two month five round series, no factory, no tv, no money (to speak of), lots of travel and expense with little to show for it. Hell this year it very well be the worst yet. Edmonton and Halifax two weeks apart? Really? Nobody own a map at CSBK? Its going to strain an already tough series I fully expect to see the numbers fall yet again. Now please dont get me wrong I seriously hope something happens and its a HUGE success but to be honest I seriously doubt it. Colin has little or no interest in playing well with others I dont even get a schedule if I didnt know people behind the scenes in the industry I wouldnt even be able to navigate the schedule and avoid conflicts. I am done giving a crap.
Now that rant over the model we are using is not reinventing the wheel it has worked very well in WERA and CCS. We have some issues that they dont such as a warm track for the finals and we are trying to unite many different orgs rather than same org different districts. Our thoughts are its a very feasible plan where a new rider can look to race his own series or possibly a couple orgs and then have one big weekend with some travel and expense but its just one per year. If it works as we hope we will be able to raise some sponsorship cash and put some jingle in the riders pockets for a change. If you know me I dont generally think small nor colour within the lines. Since I have started organizing racing I have met with tons of "you cant do that" "that will never work" SOAR will be gone in a year" yadadada. I love this sport and have been involved with it since the eighties I am tired of watching it follow the same old same old.
CSBK can still do what they do nobody is stopping them. WERA and CCS exist in the same world as the AMA and it works just fine.
First goal. Breathe life into RACE. Second goal to organize a reasonable next step.
Now that rant over the model we are using is not reinventing the wheel it has worked very well in WERA and CCS. We have some issues that they dont such as a warm track for the finals and we are trying to unite many different orgs rather than same org different districts. Our thoughts are its a very feasible plan where a new rider can look to race his own series or possibly a couple orgs and then have one big weekend with some travel and expense but its just one per year. If it works as we hope we will be able to raise some sponsorship cash and put some jingle in the riders pockets for a change. If you know me I dont generally think small nor colour within the lines. Since I have started organizing racing I have met with tons of "you cant do that" "that will never work" SOAR will be gone in a year" yadadada. I love this sport and have been involved with it since the eighties I am tired of watching it follow the same old same old.
CSBK can still do what they do nobody is stopping them. WERA and CCS exist in the same world as the AMA and it works just fine.
First goal. Breathe life into RACE. Second goal to organize a reasonable next step.
Hopefully I'm correctly picking up on some of the nuances here, - the middle of the pack regional racers, or casual race club guys, or a newby or rookie, will be inclined to show up at more regional rounds this year, maybe every round, knowing this will give them a shot at the magic number. A good incentive really, for us slower racers or rookie racers to be given a chance to be part of a high profile championship race weekend at the end of the season if we're consistent finishers and show up at each round - despite finishing 5th 6th, or even 8th (5 times). If the fastest racers from each series don't mind dealing with some traffic while fighting it out for a championship, then its all good.
Thats EXACTLY the plan and you are 100% proof that we are on the right track just by your comments. As for the fast guys dealing with it, nobody has a gun to the head. If they want to fight for the championship and in turn purse they can. If they would rather not then thats fine as well.
There are rules in place saying you need to be within a certain % of the leaders pace but I have never seen the rule enforced. So far I have never encountered traffic that was an issue but I have seen it in other races.
I hope that rule would be enforced when the speed differential is so big that it can be safety concern and can affect the outcome of a race.
racepro171
Well-known member
This��. A blue flag system Would be fantastic.
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