We are talking driving to work ... not riding for pleasure ...
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2015 Pan Am Games - High Occupancy Lanes
- Thread starter bskin
- Start date
Green Meenie
Well-known member
Once these lanes are installed, they'll never be removed. Liberals will find a way to turn them into toll lanes.
+1
Provincial government has been exhaustively talking about HOV toll lanes coming to other 400-series highways well before the games; get ready to bend over!
I have a strong feeling these temporary HOV lanes are going to largely be completely ignored; if you've ever sat in standstill freeway traffic there is always that special-needs driver who decides to drive on the shoulder; i highly doubt drivers will sit idle while there is a wide-open lane available to them; the moment they see one vehicle abuse it, they're all going to going to follow suite.
Hwy 404 HOV lane is unbelievably abused, but OPP do stop vehicles inside the 401W tunnel.
rbjeepthing
Well-known member
lol you all talk like traffic isn't a problem 24/7 365 days a year. This city is screwed now and it's really too late to do anything effective about it. Blame the civil governments of the 50's and 60's for the lack of proper infrastructure and society's me first attitude for the current and future mess we are in.
Toronto is screwed. Endless band-aid repairs with no long-term improvements. 100+ year old utilities to service the 100,000 people per year influx. So much red tape around off-hours services (construction, garbage pick-up, deliveries, etc.) that you have commuters mixed with commercial services.....nothing but total gridlock ahead!
Yep, it will be a lot of inconvenience for a lot of people ... not for a year or two to come ... but rather a decade minimum (and that assumes the officials will start doing something about it now ...). It's impossible to erase the gap caused by decades lacking of any long term planning and funding. It will be interesting to see how much people living in Toronto will be able to tolerate.
In the 50s and 60s, Toronto was <1 million and not growing very quickly. The subway and highway system was way too big. The big problem was the 80-90s. but, how can you blame a government when the job of city Councillor is a job for life in the suburbs? Etobicoke will votes Ford forever... the only reason why Rob got elected is because people thought they were still voting for his father (the signs in that election only said FORD).
City council needs term limits, and taxpayers need to realize what happens when they keep voting in the same useless folksy idiots over and over.
But yet you guys voted for Tory and his 'let's narrow streets to slow down traffic" solution and Olivia C with her 'reducing the speed limit in TO to 30km/h' for the children.
People ***** and complaint about poor traffic flow but no one asks questions about dealing with fast lane bandits to their MPs.
Groups like 'Stop100' get very little support while the latest hit by Taylor Swift gets millions of youtube hits and likes.
People ***** and complaint about poor traffic flow but no one asks questions about dealing with fast lane bandits to their MPs.
Groups like 'Stop100' get very little support while the latest hit by Taylor Swift gets millions of youtube hits and likes.
Dresden
Well-known member
I agree in principle because they started to allow cars with Green License plates on there without a passenger requirement.
Motorcycles can be considered friendlier to the environment... no?
No. Motorcycle clean tech is way behind cars, as are electronic aids.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbusters-motorcycle-emissions.html
Motorcycles were indeed more fuel-efficient than cars and emitted less of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, but they emitted far more smog-forming hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen, as well as the toxic air pollutant carbon monoxide. For the most recent model year vehicles tested -- from the '00s -- the motorcycle used 28% less fuel than the comparable decade car and emitted 30% fewer carbon dioxide emissions, but it emitted 416% more hydrocarbons, 3,220% more oxides of nitrogen and 8,065% more carbon monoxide. The MythBusters' conclusion: "At best, it's a wash. Motorcycles are just as bad for the environment as cars," Savage said on the show. "At worst, they're far worse."
The only argument in favor of motorcycles' enviro friendliness is that, if all drove cars, there would be more jam, and therefore more sitting in traffic time and greater travel times, but when people ride, travel time reduces for everyone (i.e 40% in Belgium government study), and less fuel burnt into atmosphere as a result.
By that argument, people should commute by mass transit. There are many good arguments for mass transit, and Ontarians continue to ignore them, just like the arguments for winter tires.
I shake my head at GTA traffic problems. There is no simple way to fix it and it's only going to get worse. The only way I can see it getting fixed is via dictatorship control then extensive demolition and reconstruction.... During which the GTA will be a living hell to drive through.
Good luck with that!!
I hate the 407 but as soon as the extensions out near Oshawa are complete I will take the 407 on my way to/from Shannonville.
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Good luck with that!!
I hate the 407 but as soon as the extensions out near Oshawa are complete I will take the 407 on my way to/from Shannonville.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sure, congestion tolls, move those 18 wheelers off the highways, use all the toll money to make mass transit cheaper.
Making wider highways and more highways will not fix anything, it will just push off the problem a few years.
GTA is not unique, traffic is far worse in Vancouver, LA, NY, Washington. You cannot put 5 million people in one area and not have congestion.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
There is another argument that is not well discussed, but it is very critical... motorcycles create only a fraction of the wear and tear on the roads compared with cars, vans and SUVs. Roads' deterioration is directly linked to the weight of the vechicle, and there is at least one source (link below) that indicates the effect is not proportional.
A truck that weights the same as 20 cars actually has the same impact as 9,600 cars!
Quote: "Although a five-axle tractor-trailer loaded to the current 80,000-pound Federal weight limit weighs about the same as 20 automobiles, the impact of the tractor-trailer is dramatically higher. Based on Association data, and confirmed by its officials, such a tractor-trailer has the same impact on an interstate highway as at least 9,600 automobiles as shown below."
http://archive.gao.gov/f0302/109884.pdf page # 23
If all the commuting cars were replaced by motorcycles in the summer, Toronto could save millions on the long term... maybe even ONE BILLION DOLLARS... (just joking)
Driving on the 401 this morning from Morningside to the DVP i realized that most of the traffic was composed of 18 wheelers. I have lived in cities were heavy trucks are not allowed in during rush our.
In TO it would mean all 18 Wheelers would have to stop before Oshawa/Milton and wait until 10 pm to come in or something similar.Not sure of the economic consequences but I propose that is a better solution than making Toronto streets 'less wide'
The other tactic (hate this one) was that depending on your license plate starting letter, you were not allowed to use your car once a week, so on Monday no one with license plate starting by 'A' or '1' etc.
People end up buying a second car so they could use it that day of the week but with our Insurance rates not sure people would do the same here in Canada. I wouldn't mind taking the go train once a week if it meant the other 4 I would be spending less time commuting (and I hate public transportation)
We are at that point I think some drastic measures like those will have to be applied IMO
In TO it would mean all 18 Wheelers would have to stop before Oshawa/Milton and wait until 10 pm to come in or something similar.Not sure of the economic consequences but I propose that is a better solution than making Toronto streets 'less wide'
The other tactic (hate this one) was that depending on your license plate starting letter, you were not allowed to use your car once a week, so on Monday no one with license plate starting by 'A' or '1' etc.
People end up buying a second car so they could use it that day of the week but with our Insurance rates not sure people would do the same here in Canada. I wouldn't mind taking the go train once a week if it meant the other 4 I would be spending less time commuting (and I hate public transportation)
We are at that point I think some drastic measures like those will have to be applied IMO
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Ontarians subsidize the trucking industry, and in return we have to dodge stoned or drunk truck drivers carrying tons of hazardous materials, and breathe the emissions.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Don't give them ideas, the opposite will happen.
Next thing you know, they are going to create High Occupancy Lanes on the 401 for 18 wheelers, all the way from Oshawa to Milton...
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