Roomie
Banned
I don't even track yet and my mouth dropped. Seeing things like that doesn't make it appealing for people new to track
2014 Track Days - Local Tracks and Nürburgring
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Shaman
Well-known member
Put in as little time in intermediate as possible, that's my advice. Get your techniques and your skills down pat in Novice, work on your smoothness above all and then move through Intermediate as quick as you can... or change the type of track days you do. I fully realise that not everyone will feel comfortable at an advanced pace but you don't see many crashes in those groups, and if you do they tend to be lowsides.
Intermediate can be a scary place to ride, you get advanced riders with good attention to skills but little experience, mixed with experienced riders with little ambition, and new riders with talent that are too fast to be in Novice but have too little experience to be confident of their actions - like the fellow that brake checked the other riders without warning. And of course, permutations of all of those. In any case, you'll want to pay close attention for sudden panic decisions in that rider group.
Also, while I'm on my soapbox, almost always try to make the corner, because at best you find that you make it and at worse, you lowside at a lower speed; closer to the ground. And forget what the other guy is doing. I estimate that 3/4 of the crashes I hear about on the street or track can be avoided with this advice, so I give it out often.
Last time I went in Intermediate (on my street bike, so I could spend some track time with local friends), I was right behind a fellow on a R1 who failed to do both because he was more concerned with what I was doing than what he was doing - he told me about it later in the pits when I sought him out to see if he was OK. I have it on video somewhere, you can see he's going to do it long before it happens and I backed off so he might not hear me and take the corner... but no.
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Start with a training course (Racer5 or FAST, your choice). I wish this were mandatory.
Start off someplace other than Mosport big track or Calabogie. Tracks with long straightaways have more opportunity for huge speed differences.
Choose your track day provider carefully. Some are better at picking which group people belong in than others. Some have smaller groups (less traffic = less chance of crap happening).
What is this business with people horsing around on the back straight at Mosport? I just don't get that. That is a serious track and demands total respect, yet I often see video of people rolling off and looking back to wait for their friends, or braking far too early, or doing all kinds of other stupid stuff. Too many really bad accidents have occurred there when there were huge speed differentials between vehicles. Personally I am half terrified by the speeds on that straight, but no way am I going to do something that a rider behind me might not be expecting.
If people are not going to take things seriously on that track they really shouldn't be there. Too much at stake.
If people are not going to take things seriously on that track they really shouldn't be there. Too much at stake.
^ There have been some very serious crashes at both Mosport and Bogie because of people doing things that other riders would not be able to expect - abnormally slowing down where one would expect to be going fast, taking odd lines to be on their buddy's GoPro, or simply taking a wrong line or changing lines, unexpectedly to the riders behind them.
My own decision to stay with racing, and stay out of track days, came from a very close call going into corner 5 at Bogie.
I don't know why it has gotten to be like this. On-board cameras, perhaps. Insufficient training, almost certainly.
My own decision to stay with racing, and stay out of track days, came from a very close call going into corner 5 at Bogie.
I don't know why it has gotten to be like this. On-board cameras, perhaps. Insufficient training, almost certainly.
I blame people from Niagara falls
I agree with shaman. Intermediate is a dangerous place. The last guy I trained. Rode in green until he was the fastest guy out there. Told him to move to fast group at that point. Trainee decided to try intermediate instead, one session was enough, he moved to fast group. And don't draft anyone at a trackday, always be to one side or the other so you have an out. Some people have had huge wobbles off the top of CTMP back straight. And roll off because of it. Scary.
I never rode a single lap in the intermediate group. Just rode smart in the beginner group until I was able to ride in advanced.
Don't be afraid of track days before you even get out there. You'll know if your in danger which is usually when your stuck in a pack of riders at which point you pull off and wait for an opening and head back out. You end up riding alone without fear of someone doing somthing stupid and taking you out.
Don't be afraid of track days before you even get out there. You'll know if your in danger which is usually when your stuck in a pack of riders at which point you pull off and wait for an opening and head back out. You end up riding alone without fear of someone doing somthing stupid and taking you out.
RobVN
Well-known member
I'm moving up to Red group this year after riding a few years in intermediate. There is definitely a mix of skills in intermediate and you need to have good survival skills there. I will probably be a slow Red rider but I have no real concerns as the riders out there know how to go around you and being passed doesn't bother me. I hold my line and am consistent. I will never be a racer as I can't make that commitment so my only option is track days. Looking forward to it.
Oh and carbon c'mon man some of the best riders come from Niagara and they ride gsxr's.
Oh and carbon c'mon man some of the best riders come from Niagara and they ride gsxr's.
Teal
Well-known member
I'm moving up to Red group this year after riding a few years in intermediate. There is definitely a mix of skills in intermediate and you need to have good survival skills there. I will probably be a slow Red rider but I have no real concerns as the riders out there know how to go around you and being passed doesn't bother me. I hold my line and am consistent. I will never be a racer as I can't make that commitment so my only option is track days. Looking forward to it.
Oh and carbon c'mon man some of the best riders come from Niagara and they ride gsxr's.
Let me know what days you're going to the track.
Xrayhonda
Well-known member
Wow, I didn't realize intermediate was this bad. My goal was to make it to intermediate in 3 years but after reading this I think I'll stay as long as I can in the novice group and work on being as smooth as possible. Can't wait for my first track day. lol
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Don't set a schedule. Start out with a school, do a track day in the novice group, move up when ready. You should feel and know when you are ready. Don't jump the gun, and feel free to ask for help and advice. It should be pretty apparent who you should listen to. Don't jump into red group before you are ready ... but DO move up when you are ready.
The extreme speed differences are really mostly a Mosport or Bogie issue because of the high speed nature of these tracks. DON'T make your first red-group track day at either track.
Track day providers vary in quality. A minor amount of poking around here will turn up who is good.
Part of the reason that I do few track days is that I have (and prefer) smaller bikes which don't have high straightaway speed. In racing, I am out on track with generally competent riders and generally with more-or-less comparable bikes. Track days, perhaps not.
The extreme speed differences are really mostly a Mosport or Bogie issue because of the high speed nature of these tracks. DON'T make your first red-group track day at either track.
Track day providers vary in quality. A minor amount of poking around here will turn up who is good.
Part of the reason that I do few track days is that I have (and prefer) smaller bikes which don't have high straightaway speed. In racing, I am out on track with generally competent riders and generally with more-or-less comparable bikes. Track days, perhaps not.
Thanks for all the advice in this thread. Funny enough a friend and I wanted to take our 600/750 to Calabogie or Mosport as our first trackday before doing Racer5's Stage 1-3. After reading this, we definitely made the right choice not to do so lol
Guess I will be in the green group for a few more years!
Guess I will be in the green group for a few more years!
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
You've got your head on your shoulders - good stuff.
Too many people are in a rush to get out of Green 'cause of their egos.... to be honest, if you hit 6-8 track days in your first year you'll likely be ready to move up if you have any sort of talent or skill at riding at all.
It's the people who jump the gun to yellow (i.e. second track day, or even worse, end of first day on track ever) that cause all the problems - you end up with a ton of straight line heroes (park it in the corners and wide open throttle on the straights) and people riding beyond their skill set.
Personally, I waited till I was one of the fastest guys in green before bumping to yellow. Now that I feel like I am one of the faster guys in yellow and that I have a decent understanding of lines and consistency, I am going to see about bumping up to red.
Pro6, Racer5 and Guys With Bikes run the best shows out of any track day provider I have ridden with.
