2009 KTM 690 SMC - Cutting Out When Warmed up On Throttle | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

2009 KTM 690 SMC - Cutting Out When Warmed up On Throttle

My Montesa is only measured on volume and I could see no spec other then pressure of ~50psi on the KTM, that's why I was wondering about the logic.
If I just take the fuel delivery line off and turn the engine over very slowly by hand she puts the fuel out at a pretty terrific rate. That's when I move on and look for another problem.
 
stnd said:
O2 Sensor removed and disabled in the Map.



Ok so that buzzing type sound is misfires? I think the next step will be to go back to an old map which I know worked. I was just surprised and confused by the symptoms. The bike performed like a beast for the first 20 minutes. Then the issue appeared. Now this could be because a) it warmed up creating some kind of condition or b) the plug condition changing from brand new to fouled/leaned during those 20 minutes. I will experiment with a few different things when the weather cooperates and come back with more info.

I also read the ignition coil could be overheating, but I don't understand that enough. Would it be possible to overheat just when I apply throttle to quickly or would it be overheated all the time including on slow roll ons if that was the case.
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Sometimes a coil will fail only when it is heated up. hence it fails when it gets hot. but this doesn't sound like a spark problem to me.

EDIT sometimes a coil won't fail completely and still provides a WEAK spark when hot. This will lead to a fouled plug. With a new plug it will then work as expected until the plug fouls again...maybe?
 
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1. Did your problems start after changing the mapping?

Your plug looks to have a white colour on the ceramic. Not quite the tan colour you would like to see. I would say your plug is indicating a lean condition.
It probably runs well at first as the ecu detects cold temps - and compensates with extra fuel until the bike warms up completely; then the ecu leans out the fueling when completely warm - and your problem begins happening at full temp. I would look at ecu mapping as the problem.

Put some duct tape over the hole that was cut into the top of the airbox. (Effectively sealing the air box hole and making it stock again) This will richen up the fueling overall. If you see an improvement when riding (warm) .... it is lean fueling.
 
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Ya, the only when it's hot thing is curious.
Would be interesting to compare modifications the OP has made and FZ750Rider's bike, if both have made similar modifications and both removed the O2 sensors that might indicate a problem with that modification. O2 sensors are very heat related.
 
Hey guys. Yea I'm have similar problem.
She running good. But won't idle. And bogs on wide open throttle or quick throttle inputs. Looks like she Idles good when cold for about 10mins. Then shuts off every 45 seconds or so. She's will restart no problems. Red line is 8k. 6-8k rpm she won't bog no matter what and runs strong. But by then throttle is already twisted. If you open throttle slowly she will rev Good hard and strong.

I've had this issue before last year when I tipped the bike over to change the clutch. But it went away. And I'm not sure if it's connected.

I've ran cold water on the rectifier to see if that's the issue. The symptoms don't change.

My sparkplug look good. I put a new one on anyway.
Changed the plug cap
check and clean the injector.
Check the fuel filter
Did all kinda mappings.
Check TPS voltages same values for the past 2 years
There is no negative or positive pressure at the fuel filler.
Checked and cleaned all the sensors. Map sensor, IAT, AAT.
Same issues with o2 on or off.
Same issues with secondary air system on or off
Did throttle reset procedures
No codes.



I'm thinking maybe some wiring maybe... So I'm about to rip all the wires apart...

I've been riding my Gsxr now and the KTM is just in the back in piece. I've been messing with her for 2 months now. Paying insurance and not riding it is stupid.


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Fz750 Rider said:
...
Did all kinda mappings.
...
Same issues with o2 on or off.
...
Click to expand...
So do I read that as you have also removed the O2 sensor and now turning it on or off in the ECU programming?
Because the symptoms are still not far off what you might see if your O2 sensor went bad.
 
The O2 does have a heater built into it I believe. I have the O2 attached and on the whole time. Only turned it off and unplugged it but still attached to see if anything changes. Idles a bit stronger with it off... I feel lol

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I imagine they want an arm and a leg for a new O2 sensor, or is that part covered under the emissions control equipment warranty? <- ya I know those warranties never cover the parts that actually go bad.
 
Trials said:
I imagine they want an arm and a leg for a new O2 sensor, or is that part covered under the emissions control equipment warranty? <- ya I know those warranties never cover the parts that actually go bad.
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My buddies bike run fine with it unplugged. It will throw a code and Engine light will come on. Some guy's run it like that if they dont have access to the software. Also a few factory maps from KTM disables the O2 the same way. So it seems that if it plays a role in how the motor runs, its very minimal.
 
Fz750 Rider said:
Hey guys. Yea I'm have similar problem.
She running good. But won't idle. And bogs on wide open throttle or quick throttle inputs. Looks like she Idles good when cold for about 10mins. Then shuts off every 45 seconds or so. She's will restart no problems. Red line is 8k. 6-8k rpm she won't bog no matter what and runs strong. But by then throttle is already twisted. If you open throttle slowly she will rev Good hard and strong.

I've had this issue before last year when I tipped the bike over to change the clutch. But it went away. And I'm not sure if it's connected.

I've ran cold water on the rectifier to see if that's the issue. The symptoms don't change.

My sparkplug look good. I put a new one on anyway.
Changed the plug cap
check and clean the injector.
Check the fuel filter
Did all kinda mappings.
Check TPS voltages same values for the past 2 years
There is no negative or positive pressure at the fuel filler.
Checked and cleaned all the sensors. Map sensor, IAT, AAT.
Same issues with o2 on or off.
Same issues with secondary air system on or off
Did throttle reset procedures
No codes.

I'm thinking maybe some wiring maybe... So I'm about to rip all the wires apart...
Click to expand...

Similar to what you have been doing, at this point I would like to throw parts at it but I am not sure which ones and I don't want to drop $600+ blindly (fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator and/or injector, regulator/rectifier, ignition coil) only to not fix the problem. I have read of people fixing their issues replacing one or more of the above.

So far.

* Changed fuel filter
* Cleaned injector (ultrasonic), was not flow tested
* new sparkplugs
* ordered new sparkplug boot, don't have it yet, but you tried that so I imagine that is a wasted $30
* Cleaned throttle body
* Cleaned sensors
* Ran the bike with fuel pump outside in a dish of fuel to see if any hoses are kinked or leaking at one of the connections
* resistance tests for stator, sparkplug boot, ignition coil all within spec
* TPS in spec, Accelerator Position Sensor in spec
* Valve clearances in spec (one exhaust valve on loose end still within spec)
* new oil & filters
* fresh fuel
* load tested battery
* can't do compression test due to auto decompressor

Would like to do
* check fuel pressure
* leak down test
* tracing wires, continuity testing (in progress)

I've had the bike for two seasons, it ran fine and only stalled when very hot initially. This year the bogging on opening up the throttle quickly started, and it just wont idle at all. So the situation is degrading. Does not matter which map I run. Cold starts last a bit longer and richer maps have a bit of a better time, but all fail. If i leave the driveway and it happens to work first ten minutes it wheelies 1st and 2nd real easy so I think the power and compression is there.

Here are some videos, sorry about the music. A few different maps, always ends up dying during idle.

This first one is after a cold start today. I think running the EVO1 map (richest).

This next one is after messing with it for a while. This is the AKRO map (leaner) which I ran all last summer and the one before.

I have a few idling death videos in the playlist.
www.youtube.com

KTM 690 - Idle Issues

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
stnd said:
Similar to what you have been doing, at this point I would like to throw parts at it but I am not sure which ones and I don't want to drop $600+ blindly (fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator and/or injector, regulator/rectifier, ignition coil) only to not fix the problem. I have read of people fixing their issues replacing one or more of the above.

So far.

* Changed fuel filter
* Cleaned injector (ultrasonic), was not flow tested
* new sparkplugs
* ordered new sparkplug boot, don't have it yet, but you tried that so I imagine that is a wasted $30
* Cleaned throttle body
* Cleaned sensors
* Ran the bike with fuel pump outside in a dish of fuel to see if any hoses are kinked or leaking at one of the connections
* resistance tests for stator, sparkplug boot, ignition coil all within spec
* TPS in spec, Accelerator Position Sensor in spec
* Valve clearances in spec (one exhaust valve on loose end still within spec)
* new oil & filters
* fresh fuel
* load tested battery
* can't do compression test due to auto decompressor

Would like to do
* check fuel pressure
* leak down test
* tracing wires, continuity testing (in progress)

I've had the bike for two seasons, it ran fine and only stalled when very hot initially. This year the bogging on opening up the throttle quickly started, and it just wont idle at all. So the situation is degrading. Does not matter which map I run. Cold starts last a bit longer and richer maps have a bit of a better time, but all fail. If i leave the driveway and it happens to work first ten minutes it wheelies 1st and 2nd real easy so I think the power and compression is there.

Here are some videos, sorry about the music. A few different maps, always ends up dying during idle.

This first one is after a cold start today. I think running the EVO1 map (richest).

This next one is after messing with it for a while. This is the AKRO map (leaner) which I ran all last summer and the one before.

I have a few idling death videos in the playlist.
www.youtube.com

KTM 690 - Idle Issues

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...
Firstly dope A/F ratio gauge! And yea that may as well be my bike in all those videos. Did I mention that this happened before? The whole bogging on open throttle and dying. It went away by itself I think. Never happened again till this year.

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When it's bogging what kinda reading are you getting on the a/f gauge? If I keep the throttle pinned it Bogs and bogs but doesn't die. Wondering what the ignition is doing at that point.

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Fz750 Rider said:
When it's bogging what kinda reading are you getting on the a/f gauge? If I keep the throttle pinned it Bogs and bogs but doesn't die. Wondering what the ignition is doing at that point.

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Click to expand...

I will have to try it on the road and report back. Without load it doesn't really like to keep running when i make it bog, on the road it's just as if combustion is temporarily suspended and when i roll off the throttle and roll on smoothly it comes back to normal operation.
 
stnd said:
When the bike is cool during the first 20 minutes of riding it performs so great, it's really amazing. Then when it seems to warm up to proper operating temperature after about 20 minutes of riding it start to cut out on heavy throttle. So in any gear if I ride a smooth constant throttle there are no issues. Soon as I try to whack the throttle a bit it just cuts out power like the cylinder is not even firing. Really strange. Sometimes it goes into power cut out mode for as long as i hold the throttle open. Sometimes it surges with the power coming on and off under throttle. If I slowly and smoothly apply the throttle it will get up in rpm just fine. Whack the throttle and it just makes some strange noise but it's not delivering power.
Click to expand...

I noticed you said fuel injected, I was having this problem with my bike which is carburated, and it turned out to be the "boots" leading to the carburator having cracks in them and not creating a vacuum.
 
Pegassus said:
I noticed you said fuel injected, I was having this problem with my bike which is carburated, and it turned out to be the "boots" leading to the carburator having cracks in them and not creating a vacuum.
Click to expand...
Yea I actually changed the intake boot between motor and throttle body. I had a hole in mine causing a high Idle. But ran strong as hell and no throttle or dying issues. After Changing the boot. Its not wanting to idle right.

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I know of at least two online cases where the issue was resolved by replacing the injector. Have you tried your friend's injector? I don't want to throw $150-$200 for nothing, but might just do that since I don't have a second bike =)
 
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