2009 KTM 690 SMC - Cutting Out When Warmed up On Throttle

[stnd]

Hi, I am having a new to me issue with my bike and I am hoping someone might have experienced something like this with a fuel injected bike.

• 2009 KTM 690 SMC
• SC Project Exhaust - Baffle In
• Airbox top cover cut open

When the bike is cool during the first 20 minutes of riding it performs so great, it's really amazing. Then when it seems to warm up to proper operating temperature after about 20 minutes of riding it start to cut out on heavy throttle. So in any gear if I ride a smooth constant throttle there are no issues. Soon as I try to whack the throttle a bit it just cuts out power like the cylinder is not even firing. Really strange. Sometimes it goes into power cut out mode for as long as i hold the throttle open. Sometimes it surges with the power coming on and off under throttle. If I slowly and smoothly apply the throttle it will get up in rpm just fine. Whack the throttle and it just makes some strange noise but it's not delivering power.

Again this only happens when it's warmed up, and this is a new to me issue.

Please advise. What could be causing the cutting out/boggin/misfire whatever it is.

 

[Trials]

Does a read of the spark plug after the problem has happened indicate lean operating condition?

Also have you tried a new plug? the old one might have a crack in the insulation and might be sparking way up inside the thing instead of at the gap.

 

[stnd]

I will check the spark plug again today, as you might be on the right track.

I noticed the issue yesterday after trying to gun it on the highway to get in front of the car resulting in no power and looking like an ass. At home I checked the sparkplug and it was ashy white kind of like the picture below. I replaced it with a spare i had and went for a very short ride, there were no issues so I thought that resolved it, but I did not let the bike fully warm up on the test run. Then I went on a longer run to make sure it doesn't come back when warm, and it did.

 

[TK4]

This bike has EFI - has it ever been remapped to accommodate the pipe and airbox mod ?
There may be something up with the throttle position sensor - check the service manual for a static test.

 

[GreyGhost]

As much as it sucks, you really want to cut the ignition while it is in low power mode to read the plugs. Obviously the highway is not a good place for this. You should see a difference between the plugs. I would be more inclined to think this is a fuelling issue than a spark issue. What happens if you slowly roll on to full throttle?

 

[stnd]

This bike has EFI - has it ever been remapped to accommodate the pipe and airbox mod ?
There may be something up with the throttle position sensor - check the service manual for a static test.

Yes the bike has a custom map on it to accommodate for the mods. I will be trying out some other maps to see if it goes away as suggested on the supermotojunkie forum. Just trying to gather as much advice as I can before tinkering. Plus it's raining now so doubt I will do anything today.

As much as it sucks, you really want to cut the ignition while it is in low power mode to read the plugs. Obviously the highway is not a good place for this. You should see a difference between the plugs. I would be more inclined to think this is a fuelling issue than a spark issue. What happens if you slowly roll on to full throttle?

If I slowly roll on the throttle the bike performs as expected all the way up the power band. It is only when I whack the throttle full out or fairly aggressively does it go into retarded mode. The bike keeps running but not delivering power. And after rolling off the throttle and back on more slowly or constantly it resumes normal operation.

 

[Trials]

Check your oxygen sensor.

 

[GreyGhost]

Yes the bike has a custom map on it to accommodate for the mods. I will be trying out some other maps to see if it goes away as suggested on the supermotojunkie forum. Just trying to gather as much advice as I can before tinkering. Plus it's raining now so doubt I will do anything today.



If I slowly roll on the throttle the bike performs as expected all the way up the power band. It is only when I whack the throttle full out or fairly aggressively does it go into retarded mode. The bike keeps running but not delivering power. And after rolling off the throttle and back on more slowly or constantly it resumes normal operation.

I am sticking with fueling. It seems like the digital equivalent of the accelerator pump is not working properly. It is strange that it continues to stumble after getting the lean misfire (or maybe it is a rich misfire and it wets the plug?).

 

[stnd]

Check your oxygen sensor.

O2 Sensor removed and disabled in the Map.

I am sticking with fueling. It seems like the digital equivalent of the accelerator pump is not working properly. It is strange that it continues to stumble after getting the lean misfire (or maybe it is a rich misfire and it wets the plug?).

Ok so that buzzing type sound is misfires? I think the next step will be to go back to an old map which I know worked. I was just surprised and confused by the symptoms. The bike performed like a beast for the first 20 minutes. Then the issue appeared. Now this could be because a) it warmed up creating some kind of condition or b) the plug condition changing from brand new to fouled/leaned during those 20 minutes. I will experiment with a few different things when the weather cooperates and come back with more info.

I also read the ignition coil could be overheating, but I don't understand that enough. Would it be possible to overheat just when I apply throttle to quickly or would it be overheated all the time including on slow roll ons if that was the case.

 

[GreyGhost]

O2 Sensor removed and disabled in the Map.



Ok so that buzzing type sound is misfires? I think the next step will be to go back to an old map which I know worked. I was just surprised and confused by the symptoms. The bike performed like a beast for the first 20 minutes. Then the issue appeared. Now this could be because a) it warmed up creating some kind of condition or b) the plug condition changing from brand new to fouled/leaned during those 20 minutes. I will experiment with a few different things when the weather cooperates and come back with more info.

I also read the ignition coil could be overheating, but I don't understand that enough. Would it be possible to overheat just when I apply throttle to quickly or would it be overheated all the time including on slow roll ons if that was the case.

Sounds are hard to diagnose over the internet. If you want us to try, safely take a video while it is happening (preferably one on the bike and another flyby). Given the incredible lack of power, it is a reasonably safe assumption that one cylinder isn't firing. I don't think it is possible to diagnose why it's not firing based on sound.

 

[stnd]

Sounds are hard to diagnose over the internet. If you want us to try, safely take a video while it is happening (preferably one on the bike and another flyby). Given the incredible lack of power, it is a reasonably safe assumption that one cylinder isn't firing. I don't think it is possible to diagnose why it's not firing based on sound.

No problem, I will try to get a video. Since it is a single cylinder bike the two sounds are very distinct and easy to hear. Thanks for all the help.

 

[Trials]

O2 Sensor removed and disabled in the Map.
..

is anything still stock?
Unless you are following a factory recommended procedure for modifying the bike to competition use only spec, it's a slippery slope to attempt to hit and miss re-engineer all of the operating parameters that were originally intended to be accommodated by your complex fuel injection systems design. Obsoleting the sensors intended to adjust stoichiometric ratios on the fly means, your bike now has a brain with no senses. Typically a throttle body bike has only one adjustment screw and that is to set the idle, then the electronics are suppose to take control.

I bet your motor is simply running out of fuel, so if it did work well at one point and now it doesn't, either components are failing due to heat or your operating parameters have changed, such as it's cold outside today.

 

[Trials]

If you had 2 identical motorcycles; I would swap out the fuel injector from one to the other and see if the problem follows the injector. If that didn't work I would switch out all the other major parts like the fuel pump, one at a time until you found the faulty parts or removed all of those items as being the potential problem. This is the biggest reason I am very hesitant to sell my spare bike.

 

[stnd]

is anything still stock?
Unless you are following a factory recommended procedure for modifying the bike to competition use only spec, it's a slippery slope to attempt to hit and miss re-engineer all of the operating parameters that were originally intended to be accommodated by your complex fuel injection systems design. Obsoleting the sensors intended to adjust stoichiometric ratios on the fly means, your bike now has a brain with no senses. Typically a throttle body bike has only one adjustment screw and that is to set the idle, then the electronics are suppose to take control.

I bet your motor is simply running out of fuel, so if it did work well at one point and now it doesn't, either components are failing due to heat or your operating parameters have changed, such as it's cold outside today.

I understand what you are saying, and if all else fails I will be going back to stock. The bike worked well without the O2 sensor all last season.

If you had 2 identical motorcycles; I would swap out the fuel injector from one to the other and see if the problem follows the injector. If that didn't work I would switch out all the other major parts like the fuel pump, one at a time until you found the faulty parts or removed all of those items as being the potential problem. This is the biggest reason I am very hesitant to sell my spare bike.

I do not have a spare unfortunately. Or know anyone with one. When it works properly the bike is the most fun daily ride I have ever ridden, and I will start replacing parts if necessary after running out of options.

 

[GreyGhost]

No problem, I will try to get a video. Since it is a single cylinder bike the two sounds are very distinct and easy to hear. Thanks for all the help.

Oh. I was thinking 690 was a twin. That changes things a bit. Video still doesn't hurt. What gas are you running (octane, brand and age). When was the last time the bike was running properly? What has changed since then?

 

[BigEvilDoer]

IF it's anything like my KTM RC8r, I would suggest you reflash the ECU, then let it idle for 10 full minutes ***WITHOUT*** touching the throttle. Apparently it takes the ECU this long to "learn" the map etc.
Process on RC8r is as follows:
Hook Up computer to ECU
Turn on key and kill switch (to run)
Connect Computer and ECU via software (TuneECU in my case)
Download current map from ECU to Computer for backup purposes
Load new map into software
Upload new map to ECU
Disconnect software from ECU
Turn off ignition
Disconnect cables.
Let bike sit for 3 minutes
Start bike, let idle for 10 full minutes without touching ANTHING
Turn bike off with key.
Done.

 

[Iceman]

One of the most common issues with the older 690's is blocked fuel injector. The symptoms present exactly as you're describing.
If you remove the injector and apply12v to it, it'll open and you can spray cleaner through it in reverse to clean it out.
There's quite a few videos etc out there explaining how in more detail.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

 

[stnd]

Oh. I was thinking 690 was a twin. That changes things a bit. Video still doesn't hurt. What gas are you running (octane, brand and age). When was the last time the bike was running properly? What has changed since then?

Shell 91 usually. Its from last season full tank with some stabilizer. I do not think it's fuel. Bike was running properly prior to some map adjustments, and I will go back and try older maps. Again I am just confused by the symptoms. Works great cold, issue comes around when warm, and very much based on throttle input. I need to confirm that it wasn't working nicely just because of the brand new plug.

IF it's anything like my KTM RC8r, I would suggest you reflash the ECU, then let it idle for 10 full minutes ***WITHOUT*** touching the throttle. Apparently it takes the ECU this long to "learn" the map etc.
Process on RC8r is as follows:
Hook Up computer to ECU
Turn on key and kill switch (to run)
Connect Computer and ECU via software (TuneECU in my case)
Download current map from ECU to Computer for backup purposes
Load new map into software
Upload new map to ECU
Disconnect software from ECU
Turn off ignition
Disconnect cables.
Let bike sit for 3 minutes
Start bike, let idle for 10 full minutes without touching ANTHING
Turn bike off with key.
Done.

Thanks for the suggestion, if you think 10 minutes is long, the 690 is 15 minutes =). i'm lucky if it can make it through that without stalling.

One of the most common issues with the older 690's is blocked fuel injector. The symptoms present exactly as you're describing.
If you remove the injector and apply12v to it, it'll open and you can spray cleaner through it in reverse to clean it out.
There's quite a few videos etc out there explaining how in more detail.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

I have cleaned the injector and changed fuel filter. Fuel is being delivered and bike works great when I roll on the power slowly.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I will not get to try different maps/plugs until Thursday probably and I will update the thread at that time with my results. At this point I am very hopeful that the last map I loaded is the culprit.

 

[J_F]

reminds me of my second RD350
obviously a very different bike and decades apart
but I did a bunch of mods all at once that I'd heard were good

never did get the tuning sorted and it ruined the bike
ran out of oil one day and that provided an opportunity to go back to square one

 

[Trials]

Have you seen this? ... particularly the part about whacking open the throttle.
Tjuvstopp etc. - 690 Wiki