.....

dricked said:
Well just because he has someone do the work doesn't mean they won't explain what they did and it won't be %100 perfect either which means he gets to start from a good baseline and fine tune from there gaining knowledge as he goes.
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Exactly - Going out there without a solid baseline and start experimenting is a formula for disaster (I got the back pain to prove it) and you may learn more from an hr of the expert explaining you what they are doing and why they are making whatever changes than track paying hrs of going out there and not being able to ride the way you want because you are tinkering.

This is just my opinion, now there will be a time when you have gained enough experience to start playing with settings yourself but from the comments I have seen the OP post, he is nowhere close to that, no offense OP as many people (including myself) are in the same boat
 
You ride one of the nimblest sportbikes available, bone stock, on the street I assume, and you need to make it turn quicker?

Am I missing something here? Are you an anemic 70 lb weakling?
That bike should turn just fine the way it left the factory.
 
^ True. And it brings up the #1 way to turn that nimble-turning sport bike to turn into a sluggish-turning pig ... ride it on Ontario roads for a couple thousand kilometers and wear the tires flat in the middle.

Don't make any suspension adjustments beyond basic rider-aboard sag (i.e. preload), until you have a brand new set of tires on there and you are riding the bike on the track and you have some expectation of what to look for. A 2011 ZX6R should work very well bone stock at base suspension settings right out of the owner's manual IF it has good tires on it.

Setting the front and rear preloads is the only thing that should be done before you take the bike out on the track. Be alert to the possibility that your bike has what are called "long, soft top-out springs" which completely screw up any possibility of setting the front fork sag in the normal, traditional manner. The front preload adjusters in effect become ride-height adjusters if your forks have long, soft top-out springs (most newer USD forks do). Before you get tempted to cut those top-out springs or replace them with spacers ... they may screw up traditional suspension thinking but they are in there for good reason.

Definitely read the books (Andrew Trevitt's book on suspension tuning is a good one, and so is the RaceTech "suspension bible").

Set the rider-aboard sag first. If front preload adjustment doesn't translate to a one-for-one change in the sag measurement ... you are into the top-out springs, if this happens then set the front preload to the middle of the range for now. Put NEW TIRES on the bike before you go to the track. Set pressures to what the track tire guy says you should.

Put a zip-tie around one fork and the shock rod as tightly as possible so that you can use it to judge suspension travel.

Then go out on track and see what it feels like mid-corner. Don't go by turn-in YET. Mid-corner, it should feel as if you could let go of the bars and the bike would carry on turning at the same lean angle - not falling in, not standing up. If it wants to fall in (especially if it feels like the front wants to wash out) the geometry needs to be raked out (front up and/or rear down). If it wants to stand up then the geometry needs to be tucked in (front down and/or rear up). Change the front first. Do it at the preload adjusters first before you actually change the ride height. If the sag starts getting out of bounds then you need to change the ride height. Both the preload and the ride height affect the rider-aboard attitude (geometry) of the bike ...

First get the sags right.
Then tune bike attitude (front/rear ride height and/or preload) to get neutral mid-corner feel. Keep in mind that changing the preload will screw up the sag, unless you have those long, soft top-out springs (front forks only).
Then get the spring rates right. If you are running out of compression travel (either end) generally you need more spring.
Of course, changing the springs will screw up your geometry and sag, so if you change them, go back to step one.
Only once you have the geometry and spring rates right should you start mucking about with the damping clickers unless they are completely out of whack. Damping will not fix wrong spring rates or wrong geometry.

And that's only the simple stuff. Haven't even talked about swingarm pivot height and its effect on anti-squat i.e. grip when on the throttle coming out of corners. Haven't talked about different tire types, sizes, or brands. Change to different tires? Start over. (Been there)
 
No offense to either but it seems we have our CORSARA of 2014 :D

Good luck Tony in your pursuit of knowledge
 
If you use the rear brake, nothing will fix it until you get off the rear brake. And yes I know people who say they don't ,,,think they don't,, but they still do,,,seen it a 1000 times,,, If you use the rear brake all this will be a waste of money.
 
the bandit said:
No offense to either but it seems we have our CORSARA of 2014 :D

Good luck Tony in your pursuit of knowledge
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Not sure about that - Corsara's questions were asked after doing a lot of research and he was willing to listen and continue to ask question relevant to the topic. Others remind me of that cat that is trying to catch a laser on a wall, or trying to have a conversation with a teenager while they are texting.
 
ZX600 said:
Not sure about that - Corsara's questions were asked after doing a lot of research and he was willing to listen and continue to ask question relevant to the topic. Others remind me of that cat that is trying to catch a laser on a wall, or trying to have a conversation with a teenager while they are texting.
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Don't know Paulo.... Why do research when he belongs to a forum with many track riders such as GTAM just ask and the riders who are truly intent on passing on their wisdom and experiences can do so. I do know twotons intentions are good he just wants to learn, everyone learns differently some put the cart before the horse but as long as that milk gets delivered its all good.

IF and when I do track days in my OPINION which mirrors ZX600 I believe, I wouldn't change a thing on my bike just hit the track and slap that arse.Once I hit a wall as far as improving my times then and only then would I start to tinker with suspension.. gearing.. geometry.

So Tony keep in mind I have never done track but you know how I ride on the streets,so take it for what it is.

To answer your question YES Tony I will hit the track at some point this upcoming season
 
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the bandit said:
Don't know Paulo.... Why do research when he belongs to a forum with many track riders such as GTAM just ask and the riders who are truly intent on passing on their wisdom and experiences can do so. I do know twotons intentions are good he just wants to learn, everyone learns differently some put the cart before the horse but as long as that milk gets delivered its all good.

IF and when I do track days in my OPINION which mirrors ZX600 I believe, I wouldn't change a thing on my bike just hit the track and slap that arse.Once I hit a wall as far as improving my times then and only then would I start to tinker with suspension.. gearing.. geometry.

So Tony keep in mind I have never done track but you know how I ride on the streets,so take it for what it is.

To answer your question YES Tony I will hit the track at some point this upcoming season to see what all this hubub is about and see if I likey likey.
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I wasn't talking about him specifically, my point is in reference to Corsara, the guy asked a lot of questions but he was willing to put the work when it came down to doing what people suggested, not many people will be Corsara like, that been a good or a bad thing depending of whom you ask
 
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Bickle Racing said:
If you use the rear brake, nothing will fix it until you get off the rear brake. And yes I know people who say they don't ,,,think they don't,, but they still do,,,seen it a 1000 times,,, If you use the rear brake all this will be a waste of money.
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+1

Had that experience. Came on the forum here in my first season of track riding asking for advice to cure my "front end chatter" under hard braking. Phoned Traxxion Dynamics for help (great guys, very helpful, they had provided the internals for my forks a few years prior). They asked "are you *sure* it is the front?" Of course I was! I could feel it through the bars!

Had the forks apart, measured all kinds of stuff, verified available travel, changed oil height, monkeyed with rear ride height, nothing fixed it. Very frustrating.

Then I got off the rear brake (which up until that point I wasn't aware I was using). Problem 100% solved, instantly.

Oopsie. Live and learn.
 
Hey guys, don't talk about me in the past tense, me and my questions are still here, I'm just still a bit hungover from New Years, also too frozen from going out today, so tune up 'cause Corsara's coming back in Feb/Mar with a zillion new ambitions and questions! For now I'm focusing on the best thing I can do for myself---working out and shedding the weight, which prevented me from lasting more than 6 laps at a time all season long (chest protector too tight, endurance, etc.). I solve that problem---I'll be golden!
 
the bandit said:
IF and when I do track days in my OPINION which mirrors ZX600 I believe, I wouldn't change a thing on my bike just hit the track and slap that arse.Once I hit a wall as far as improving my times then and only then would I start to tinker with suspension.. gearing.. geometry.

So Tony keep in mind I have never done track but you know how I ride on the streets,so take it for what it is.

To answer your question YES Tony I will hit the track at some point this upcoming season
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Have you had your bike looked at to at least make sure your current set up is reasonable?
 
Corsara said:
For now I'm focusing on the best thing I can do for myself---working out and shedding the weight, which prevented me from lasting more than 6 laps at a time all season long (chest protector too tight, endurance, etc.). I solve that problem---I'll be golden!
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Awesome! Good work. Hopefully we'll actually meet up at the track this year.
 
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