Tankless Water Heater???

Paul

Paul

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Well...my water heater is about 24 years old...it's soon time to change.

Anyone have any experience with tankless water heaters? I'm looking at a Navien. Any reviews? Pros? Cons?

Thanks

Cheers

Paul
 
Paul said:
Well...my water heater is about 24 years old...it's soon time to change.

Anyone have any experience with tankless water heaters? I'm looking at a Navien. Any reviews? Pros? Cons?

Thanks

Cheers

Paul
Click to expand...

Not much experience by way of actual usage, but we installed one in a house we flipped last year. I think it helped with the attractiveness of the house somewhat now that ppl are becoming more conscious of overall living costs, the environment, etc.
 
There seems to be a lot of hype about these devices, though much of what I've seen of user reviews has been mixed. Here's a page from Consumer Reports that lists some good information and points to consider:

Are tankless heaters a worthwhile investment?

Note that Consumer Reports also rates and recommends particular models, but those pages require that you be a member. I recommend signing up, it's relatively cheap and you get access to all their ratings, which covers a huge variety of consumer products.


--DK
 
To the guy asking why you'd want one. More efficient (re. Not keeping 50gallons of water heated all the time) quieter, only runs when water is needed and no more running out of hot water even when all the taps and showers are running.

For you Paul we install more Rinnai's than we do Naviens but they are both quality units but we push the Rinnai unless the customer is set on something else.

Also, make sure you get somone who has done it before and can do it to get it done. I can't count how many people have called us for repair because the clowns who put theirs in didn't know what they were doing. Everything from bad unstable mounting to the wrong routing of the cold and hot water lines and more.

One thing is that the Rinnai NEEDS to be mounted on a exterior wall where as the navien is a bit more flexible. That more or less depends on your house and basement if its finished or what not.

Another thing to read up on is adding a storage tank. A 2 galon will run you about $200 but will prevent a cold water samwich.

Any more questions let me know
 
Mike Holmes swears by them LOL

Actually they are great and cost effective, only heating water when the taps are turned on vrs heating the water when a thermostat tells the burner to heat a tank of water. If going all the way and install a manifold with plastic water lines in place of copper/brass you will always have the same main pressure at all water fawcets in the house no matter what fawcets or how many fawcets turned on.
 
I asked about a tankless when I had to replace mine.
The hydro company told me it was only worth wile for larger families. No not chubby people i mean 5-6 people and more. Unless you run out of hot water now, don't change style of heater.
 
growing up in britain then coming here there were a few things ahead, a few things behind. One of those things ahead was on demand hot water, IMO.
 
here are two examples
1. Neighbour got one , hates it! says it takes forever to get hot water (for shaving in the morn)
I tried it and yes it takes awhile.
2. Work, has one, works great, fast hot water, seems good for hot water for washing equipment.
The difference seems to be how far the heater is from the tap you use most, ie the neighbours tankless is at the far end of the basement, while the primary taps (kitchen and bath) are at the opposite corner, so basically he has 30" of cold water to go through before he gets hot water.
Don't forget, your present tank has hot water in the tank, BUT also heat is also warming up the pipes on the hot water side of the tank.
The tankless at work is in a room right behind the sink= 5" of cold water to waste before you get hot.

The problem is you can save on your gas bill, but your water consumption actually goes up!
So instead of turning on the water for the shower and getting in, people tend to turn on the water, do something else, and then get in the shower.

gerry
 
gerry said:
here are two examples
1. Neighbour got one , hates it! says it takes forever to get hot water (for shaving in the morn)
I tried it and yes it takes awhile.
2. Work, has one, works great, fast hot water, seems good for hot water for washing equipment.
The difference seems to be how far the heater is from the tap you use most, ie the neighbours tankless is at the far end of the basement, while the primary taps (kitchen and bath) are at the opposite corner, so basically he has 30" of cold water to go through before he gets hot water.
Don't forget, your present tank has hot water in the tank, BUT also heat is also warming up the pipes on the hot water side of the tank.
The tankless at work is in a room right behind the sink= 5" of cold water to waste before you get hot.

The problem is you can save on your gas bill, but your water consumption actually goes up!
So instead of turning on the water for the shower and getting in, people tend to turn on the water, do something else, and then get in the shower.

gerry
Click to expand...


Tell your friend to get a storage tank if he wants to get rid of thatcold zone. You can go from a 2galon to a 75 galon, but a 10 is normally what we put in.
 
My parents had one installed 2 years ago, and they wish they hadn't. Takes too long to get hot water, and if you shut off the hot water just for one second, you end up with a cold water pocket that takes forever to pass.
When I'm at my folks helping with doing dishes, I'm always cursing when I'm rinsing them after they've been washed. It's a pain in the ***.

As for what they have in England, when I was there last time, the heater unit is right in the shower itself, so there is not much chance of getting that cold water pocket. In our houses, the taps are usually a long way from the heater, so you end up using more water in the end.

I don't like them, just my 2 cents:)
 
ScoTTY88 said:
One thing is that the Rinnai NEEDS to be mounted on a exterior wall where as the navien is a bit more flexible. That more or less depends on your house and basement if its finished or what not.
Click to expand...

Why does the Rinnai need to be installed on an exterior wall? My parents have one installed at the cottage and it's on an inside wall, will it be a problem?
 
It most probably has something to do with the maximum vent length you may use.
I am not a huge fan of these devices. What people do not realise is the following: The common 250 000 BTU/h wall hung, generally only deliver about 2-3 gpm at a 50*F temp rise. So during winter water temps coming into the average house are between 40-50*F. At a 50* rise you are showering in 90*F water. Then the installer is going to tell you, well we can gang two togother. $6-7K later, you will never in 150 years recoup your money. Conventional 40-50 gal domestic water heaters are pretty effecient. Also we have bad water quality(hard water) in most of Canada. Look at the heat exchanger in the wall hung and notice its probably 3/8". Good luck when that plugs up. Also, unless you buy a modulating wall hung heater, it runs at 0% or if you need hot water, 100% regardless.

Don't waste your hard earned cash. Buy a nice electric car if you want to hug the trees.
 
The gas ones also require direct venting to outside. I wanted one for my town home but it's not practical since the existing venting is using a galvanized chimney that goes two stories up.
 
TBSS_guy said:
Why does the Rinnai need to be installed on an exterior wall? My parents have one installed at the cottage and it's on an inside wall, will it be a problem?
Click to expand...
Venting and code requirements. Its supposed to be a 90 up then a straight shot outside, if its on and inside wall you have to run longer venting and you only have so much length allowed to play with. I doubt a inspector will be comming to your cottage so you'll be fine.
 
I am from Europe, yes we had them there, yes they worked.
There was one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom.

Installing one for the whole house and houses here are bigger. I think will not work.
 
I have one at home, works ok for what I need it to do.


Pros:
  • Quiet
  • energy efficient as long as you aren't always commanding hot water.
  • Gets hot enough even when the city water is at its coldest during the winter.
  • Takes up much less room than a tanked setup.
  • Programmable t-stat to set max hot water output temp.
Cons:
  • I think it operates on a flow switch to determine when to turn the heater on. If you slowly turn on the water from cold to hot (like on the single arm faucets) it doesn't always see the demand for hot water and wont trigger the unit. Im not sure that its works on a flow switch, but that is the problem that exists.
  • Related to above, if you have a long length of pipework between the hot water request location and the heater, it takes a bit of time before you receive the hot water. As long as 7-12 seconds for my setup at the furthest point from the heater.
If I had to do it again, I would without a doubt get another tankless water heater.
 
NP6000 said:
.............. if you have a long length of pipework between the hot water request location and the heater, it takes a bit of time before you receive the hot water. As long as 7-12 seconds for my setup at the furthest point from the heater.......
Click to expand...

why is this problem worse than with a conventional tank heater?
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