Covid travel restrictions

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pfbmgd said:
torontosun.com

WARMINGTON: COVID hotels against Charter of Rights, Justice Centre says

The Canadian government has been asked by constitutional experts to stop the mandatory hotel quarantining of returning travellers.
torontosun.com torontosun.com

One group standing up for Canadians .
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Maybe it was buried further in the quarantine act but i didn't see anything about due process.

secret sites is stupid, should be investigated for sure.

the rest? i'm good with it.

why can't you quarantine at home? are they missing the plot?
 
Evoex said:
Maybe it was buried further in the quarantine act but i didn't see anything about due process.

secret sites is stupid, should be investigated for sure.

the rest? i'm good with it.

why can't you quarantine at home? are they missing the plot?
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That is the problem an guy charged with a crime has more rights then a guy returning from vacation .

You can have places designated for returning vacationers if they don't have a place for quarantine . But not force people to stay in them and pay crazy prices .
 
pfbmgd said:
That is the problem an guy charged with a crime has more rights then a guy returning from vacation .

You can have places designated for returning vacationers if they don't have a place for quarantine . But not force people to stay in them and pay crazy prices .
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So what if we flip it around? People coming back to self-quarantine have been proven time and time again to violate that quarantine. Not all, but I suspect most. The tiny hammer used on those people was obviously completely ineffective. Would you prefer a giant hammer for those caught to make it more likely that they comply? Something like mandatory 12 months in jail upon conviction? Telling people to be good without the hammer is a completely failed strategy and we need to try a new strategy. You obviously have big problems with the proposed solution. What would you prefer to solve the problem? I agree $2000 for 3 days is crazy and JT is a moron. I would have vastly preferred $2000-3000 for 14 days like other countries where this was successfully implemented.
 
GreyGhost said:
So what if we flip it around? People coming back to self-quarantine have been proven time and time again to violate that quarantine. Not all, but I suspect most. The tiny hammer used on those people was obviously completely ineffective. Would you prefer a giant hammer for those caught to make it more likely that they comply? Something like mandatory 12 months in jail upon conviction? Telling people to be good without the hammer is a completely failed strategy and we need to try a new strategy. You obviously have big problems with the proposed solution. What would you prefer to solve the problem? I agree $2000 for 3 days is crazy and JT is a moron. I would have vastly preferred $2000-3000 for 14 days like other countries where this was successfully implemented.
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it's likely he will say the law is the law. which is somewhat true as it swings both ways.

i guess we shall see what the judges say
 
GreyGhost said:
So what if we flip it around? People coming back to self-quarantine have been proven time and time again to violate that quarantine. Not all, but I suspect most. The tiny hammer used on those people was obviously completely ineffective. Would you prefer a giant hammer for those caught to make it more likely that they comply? Something like mandatory 12 months in jail upon conviction? Telling people to be good without the hammer is a completely failed strategy and we need to try a new strategy. You obviously have big problems with the proposed solution. What would you prefer to solve the problem? I agree $2000 for 3 days is crazy and JT is a moron. I would have vastly preferred $2000-3000 for 14 days like other countries where this was successfully implemented.
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See that is the difference between you and I . I respect peoples charter rights . A few may not follow the quarantine procedures . But I bet majority will . You have truckers rolling across the border daily . No quarantine no nothing . But you are being distracted by the government with vacationers . That they are the bad people . Not the ruling government that didn't get you your vaccine . JT is not a moron . He has you looking for hate groups and locking up Canadian citizens . While he skates on his failure at getting you the vaccine . He knows exactly what he is doing to distract you .
 
pfbmgd said:
See that is the difference between you and I . I respect peoples charter rights . A few may not follow the quarantine procedures . But I bet majority will . You have truckers rolling across the border daily . No quarantine no nothing . But you are being distracted by the government with vacationers . That they are the bad people . Not the ruling government that didn't get you your vaccine . JT is not a moron . He has you looking for hate groups and locking up Canadian citizens . While he skates on his failure at getting you the vaccine . He knows exactly what he is doing to distract you .
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what you say has merit.

but. the majority is not good enough. We have the UK strain here thanks to some people who didn't give a ****. Not only that, they lied about it. We can debate that there's a chance it may have been introduced anyways but without some sort of monitored quarantine the risk currently is too high. The right of the public as a whole to be healthy has to outweigh individual rights. That's the entire premise of the quarantine act and others like it.
 
pfbmgd said:
See that is the difference between you and I . I respect peoples charter rights . A few may not follow the quarantine procedures . But I bet majority will . You have truckers rolling across the border daily . No quarantine no nothing . But you are being distracted by the government with vacationers . That they are the bad people . Not the ruling government that didn't get you your vaccine . JT is not a moron . He has you looking for hate groups and locking up Canadian citizens . While he skates on his failure at getting you the vaccine . He knows exactly what he is doing to distract you .
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In my opinion this in no way violates charter rights.

I agree, the number of exemptions is crazy and we should have been working on systems to improve that. At least the trucks crossing the border may have some positive benefit to the country as a whole. Vacationing wankers have no benefit to anybody.

You are continuing to follow the pattern that is prevalent in our country of "look at them doing that thing they shouldn't do. Therefore I should be able to do the thing I want to do". In my mind, that way of thinking is a much bigger obstacle coming out of this with minimal damage than any stupid government policy.
 
“The measures infringe” on “Charter Rights and Freedoms Section 6, right to enter and leave Canada, Section 7, liberty and security of the person, Section 9, right not to be arbitrarily detained or arrested; Section 10, right to retain and instruct counsel without delay upon arrest or detention; Section 11, right not to be denied reasonable bail,”
 
J_F said:
“The measures infringe” on “Charter Rights and Freedoms Section 6, right to enter and leave Canada, Section 7, liberty and security of the person, Section 9, right not to be arbitrarily detained or arrested; Section 10, right to retain and instruct counsel without delay upon arrest or detention; Section 11, right not to be denied reasonable bail,”
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I think no for 6 as you can enter or leave, there is just a pause.

I think no for 7 as it is 3 days, eff off.

I think no for 9, this is in no way arbitrary.

I think no for 10 as they dont seize your methods of communication, you can spend the whole 72 hours contacting lawyers and paying them to unleash an unholy storm of paperwork at the govt.

I think no for 11 as it is three days not three years while you wait for trial, eff off.
 
J_F said:
“The measures infringe” on “Charter Rights and Freedoms Section 6, right to enter and leave Canada, Section 7, liberty and security of the person, Section 9, right not to be arbitrarily detained or arrested; Section 10, right to retain and instruct counsel without delay upon arrest or detention; Section 11, right not to be denied reasonable bail,”
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yeah my basic reading of the quarantine act throws all those points in the trashcan lol.

no one's infringing on section 6, you can come and go as you please. you just don't pass GO on the way in.
 
detained having done nothing wrong is the definition or arbitrary

so a Charter right is okay to ignore if it's only 3 days?

they need to amend the Quarantine Act and pass it though House, Senate and Royal Assent

we don't do EO's in this country
 
GreyGhost said:
In my opinion this in no way violates charter rights.

I agree, the number of exemptions is crazy and we should have been working on systems to improve that. At least the trucks crossing the border may have some positive benefit to the country as a whole. Vacationing wankers have no benefit to anybody.

You are continuing to follow the pattern that is prevalent in our country of "look at them doing that thing they shouldn't do. Therefore I should be able to do the thing I want to do". In my mind, that way of thinking is a much bigger obstacle coming out of this with minimal damage than any stupid government policy.
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Trucks crossing the border " may have some positive benefit " . I see where your head is . The trucks are providing a vital food support for us . Without them you would be looting on week two .

Does the virus not come across with the truckers ? We just let them come and go . But the real danger is the vacationer that comes back with a negative test . Then gets tested again to make sure .

You are the obstacle .You are pointing at other people instead of pointing at the governments failure .

They had 10 months to figure it out . They stopped Canadian airlines from flying south . They laid off a bunch of employees . But people just switched to US carriers to go south . The government loves it when you complain about people not wearing masks . The have you distracted while they are doing what they want .
 
J_F said:
detained having done nothing wrong is the definition or arbitrary

so a Charter right is okay to ignore if it's only 3 days?

they need to amend the Quarantine Act and pass it though House, Senate and Royal Assent

we don't do EO's in this country
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It's not arbitrary, you came from another country with a raging contagious disease. If govt was half smart, they would test you on day 3 and argue that the quarantine was necessary as you need to wait out the incubation period. The way I have heard it so far, you get one test at the airport and then hang out for 3 days which if correct, is arbitrary and stupid.
 
pfbmgd said:
Trucks crossing the border " may have some positive benefit " . I see where your head is . The trucks are providing a vital food support for us . Without them you would be looting on week two .

Does the virus not come across with the truckers ? We just let them come and go . But the real danger is the vacationer that comes back with a negative test . Then gets tested again to make sure .

You are the obstacle .You are pointing at other people instead of pointing at the governments failure .

They had 10 months to figure it out . They stopped Canadian airlines from flying south . They laid off a bunch of employees . But people just switched to US carriers to go south . The government loves it when you complain about people not wearing masks . The have you distracted while they are doing what they want .
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The real danger is both. Because govt is stupid and ineffectual and completely ignored one vector, your argument is they should be equitable and completely ignore all vectors? Mind blown.
 
Evoex said:
. The right of the public as a whole to be healthy has to outweigh individual rights.
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This was the Idea that Stalin sold to his people . How did that work out . I'm obviously I'm paraphrasing .
 
J_F said:
detained having done nothing wrong is the definition or arbitrary

so a Charter right is okay to ignore if it's only 3 days?

they need to amend the Quarantine Act and pass it though House, Senate and Royal Assent

we don't do EO's in this country
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there is everything wrong with being a potential health risk to the general population.
 
one test before flying
another one at the AP

locked up against your will and you've done nothing wrong
it is 100% arbitrary

there is no travel ban, can't be - Section 6

Quarantine Act allows for quarantine if reason to suspect infection
until the second test comes back positive or there are symptoms
there is no evidence of risk

go read the Charter and Quarantine Act
I have
 
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