Bobcaygeon OPP

justride said:
www.thestar.com

Opinion | Did police shoot and kill this baby? How long must we wait for answers?

The public has a right to timely answers, especially if a police officer is responsible, whether culpability rises to the level of criminal charges or not, writes Rosie DiManno.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com

Is there any other updates?
Click to expand...
The latest I saw was the father had a handgun (at least in the car, not sure about in his hand). Obviously autopsy done on kid and all relevant firearms seized and sent for evaluation. I haven't heard anything further to that.
 
Isn't there still an ongoing SIU investigation?
 
probably waiting for a big story to hit the news cycle so they can slide it in unnoticed.
 
Covid boredom has meant watching too many YouTube car chases, some resulting in death crashes. It is very easy to armchair quarterback most of this stuff but it doesn't work that way in real life. Inches or fractions of inches are the difference between life and death.

The old Mission Impossible TV shows were great at exact scenarios formulated weeks in advance with CAD drawings of medieval castles. Reality is made up a split second at a time.

SIU will minimize the collateral damage if a cop fired the bullet but it goes back to who started the fight.
 
OPP knew who the driver was, knew where he lived, knew the vehicle
they also knew there was a 1 year old in the truck

what was the screaming panic to stop the truck and get in a firefight?
a spike belt across the road with a speeding vehicle and an infant inside
bad idea

3 cops open fire on the vehicle with an infant inside
bad idea

let the guy speed away with the kid, in a volatile state, and a gun in the vehicle
bad idea

I'm guessing they could have had a chopper over the area in a few minutes
follow the guy, eventually he's gonna stop

sounds like around 20 cops involved
none of them had any better ideas?
 
J_F said:
OPP knew who the driver was, knew where he lived, knew the vehicle
they also knew there was a 1 year old in the truck

what was the screaming panic to stop the truck and get in a firefight?
a spike belt across the road with a speeding vehicle and an infant inside
bad idea

3 cops open fire on the vehicle with an infant inside
bad idea

let the guy speed away with the kid, in a volatile state, and a gun in the vehicle
bad idea

I'm guessing they could have had a chopper over the area in a few minutes
follow the guy, eventually he's gonna stop

sounds like around 20 cops involved
none of them had any better ideas?
Click to expand...

No one wants to get into a firefight, but... You can't just let the individual in question go. Especially if there's a weapon involved.
the idea that you can take a hostage and the police will let you leave is a dream.
I think the general public would be surprised how early the decision is made to take the first available shot in similar situations.

Cops are damned if they do damned if they don't in this situation.
We have no idea what if any threats the suspect had made towards the child or anyone else.

Suspect bears the greater share of any blame. He could have ended it all by just giving up peacefully. f*** that guy.
 
J_F said:
OPP knew who the driver was, knew where he lived, knew the vehicle
they also knew there was a 1 year old in the truck

what was the screaming panic to stop the truck and get in a firefight?
a spike belt across the road with a speeding vehicle and an infant inside
bad idea

3 cops open fire on the vehicle with an infant inside
bad idea

let the guy speed away with the kid, in a volatile state, and a gun in the vehicle
bad idea

I'm guessing they could have had a chopper over the area in a few minutes
follow the guy, eventually he's gonna stop

sounds like around 20 cops involved
none of them had any better ideas?
Click to expand...
J.S.
 
Dirty Frank said:
J.S.
Click to expand...
Well by the time they started shooting you already had a cop seriously injured. It's hard to fault them for shooting after he almost killed one of your buddies.

I havent dealt with bobcaygeon cops, but my experience has been that as you move north (eg huntsville/haliburton vs barrie) the cops become more caring and human and less like cartman.
 
I would think the primary concern in an abduction or hostage taking
would be to secure the safety of the abductee or the hostage

the first action - spike belt in front of a speeding vehicle - endangered
the second action - gunfire, killed the abductee/hostage

hard to see this as anything other than a massive failure
but hey! the cops all lived, woohoo!
 
J_F said:
I would think the primary concern in an abduction or hostage taking
would be to secure the safety of the abductee or the hostage

the first action - spike belt in front of a speeding vehicle - endangered
the second action - gunfire, killed the abductee/hostage

hard to see this as anything other than a massive failure
but hey! the cops all lived, woohoo!
Click to expand...


Sure, however safety of the public at large is also a major concern. Ergo the suspect must be prevented from fleeing. This is SOP.
Spike belt... probably not enough time to deploy or... Too dangerous to do so in the given circumstance.
Sure, gunfire isn't anyone's first choice, but... A social worker probably wasn't available to help deescalate the situation.
It'll be interesting to read the findings of the investigation... They'll determine who's weapons fired which rounds.
Until then lets continue speculation on things we know nothing about, or better yet... Nut up Ontario Provincial Police - Careers
 
situation didn't need a social worker
it needed cops with training other than

get the car off the road, now
start shooting because one of us has been harmed

they had nothing else in the toolkit
with 20 officers involved, surely there must be a Supervisor involved?

hindsight is easy, but it's not hard to think of a better tactic and outcome
 
Question. Would the discussion be different if the dad had killed the child and then himself?
I feel for the police involved in this. They had to see the end result of this right up close.
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