New Riders...Start with a smaller bike!

[PLau]

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@Genesis.

I had your attitude in 2014. There was also objective proof when I went to the track with a group of riders that regularly ramped together. we were all using CBR125s, and our group was so fast we were lapping others. Our instructor never gave us a single compliment in order to keep our egos down and was incredibly critical: all that did was make us faster.

And then one by one we learned, if left uncontrolled, our egos would wreck us. One by one we had crashes that red flagged a track day. One by one we had our confidence destroyed. One by one we threw out leg over the bike after these incidents, only to realize we were now ****ing afraid.

I can't judge you for your attitude, because I understand and can relate to it. I will, however, warn you to tame your ego before it controls you. One day you will meet a rider out of your league. And if you choose to chase them, you will learn very fast the meaning behind this message.

Your confidence was destroyed, gained about 50% back, and bottomed out a couple months later before my eyes. Still regret not recording at the time.

How long did it even take you after the 2nd time to get back on? Didn't you sell your bike that time?

I haven't seen you since.

 

[油井緋色]

Your confidence was destroyed, gained about 50% back, and bottomed out a couple months later before my eyes. Still regret not recording at the time.

How long did it even take you after the 2nd time to get back on? Didn't you sell your bike that time?

I haven't seen you since.

Nobody needs to know the latter part lmao <_<

I'm down to ride whenever. I'll PM you my #

To be honest, the crash you witnessed didn't touch my confidence. I knew I was gonna crash the second I got on the throttle...and I really wasn't in the right state of mind due to being emotional. I actually hopped on the bike shortly after on xmas eve and immediately started dragging knee on the Bayview ramp lol

The high side, however, took me 2 seasons to fully get over. Something about it would trigger random vivid hallucinations of crashing, along with a literal disconnect between my body and mind. Sometimes I couldn't turn right without my body involuntarily freezing up. This stopped happening after 3~ track days but holy **** my 1st track day back at Mosport was horrifying; my buddies and instructor knew why I was slow and no one said anything...but I knew I had a ****ing congo line of stuck riders behind me because of how slow I was. It was also ****ing raining that day!

I sold my bike once I beat my pre crash lap times because of $$$...and ended up back on one within three months lol No track days anymore though!

 

[PLau]

Nobody needs to know the latter part lmao <_<

In retrospect, I'm surprised you wore full gear all the time given your confidence in your abilities.

 

[油井緋色]

In retrospect, I'm surprised you wore full gear all the time given your confidence in your abilities.

I was aware that I would at some point crash, so dressed for the occasion. However, I was not aware how much mental torture the effects of crashing unexpectedly would cause.

To be clear, I low sided a few times prior to that crash but saw all of them coming (pine cone, sand, staring at the wrong ****, etc.). I had no idea tapping a front brake ever so gently would violently flip me off onto my head lol

 

[Genesis]

There are track guys who would shellac you riding a 250 on everything except the dead straightaways.

It doesn’t take skill to go fast in a straight line. Every squid who’s ever started on a SS is able to prove that in short order.

But it doesn’t make you a skilled rider. To the contrary actually.

I know you think otherwise, but some track time will humble you in short order.

Why do certain people compare a seasoned rider to a new rider? In almost any chosen field of discussion, the seasoned person will outperform the new person with much more efficiency and skill with less reliance on assisted tools when compared to the new person. I dont think it says much when one says a seasoned rider on a 250 will outperform the new rider on a 600 on the twists. I find myself thinking..."and your point is?"

That's completely natural and expected so I dont see the point. Even if the new rider had a 250, the seasoned rider would still outperform the new one *shrugs*

And if your point is to suggest that because the rider has a 600 and another has a 250, the 600 should never be put to shame by the 250, then you form that opinion from your preconceived notions and beliefs.

If we are talking about 2 evenly matched and skilled riders then yes, the 600 should not be shamed. However, we are talking about a "new rider" and a "seasoned rider". In this case, it is completely normal and expected that the one with more experience will outperform the one with less, regardless of the bike.

What is odd, weird or shameful about that? You're making judgments from your beliefs and the mental image in your head that when you see a 600 SS, knees must drag. Sure, it's what it was designed for but that can come in time.

A person doesn't have to jump on it and drag knees right away do they? The learning curve is much more steep when starting on the SS but that is all.

Still, I understand your point and what you're trying to say.

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[Genesis]

Neither is posting stories about driving a minimum of 60-ish% over the speed limit, which is legal precisicly nowhere in the province except a track.

Never said it was done in Canada friend

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[Genesis]

This is where you and 90% of people on this thread would disagree.

No one is talking about "Maxing out" the bike in regards to top speed, rather, people are talking about actually being able to ride and control the bike to it's potential.

This is why people are disagreeing with you as it takes little to no skill to twist the throttle to as fast as possible.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
You find joy in going fast in a straight line, while pretty much everyone here is talking about being able to ride the motorcycle well.

You can definitely do some cornering to demonstrate the control you have of your bike without "incriminating yourself".

If you're talking about hitting the top speed while coming out of a corner (before your bike is pretty much standing up), that is another story.



One of the issues with starting on a larger bike is that people, like yourself, get too used to the fast speeds and don't really experience what to do when a situation arises. It desensitizes the rider at those fast speeds, but never really learn how to control it when a sharp turn comes up quicker than expected where hard braking and appropriate speed to enter the turn need to be considered.

To quote OP's experience one year ago:


This is one of the many reasons why you can often see many people on 125-500cc bikes pass Supersports on the track.


With all that said, nobody should even be coming close to "maxing out" their bike when riding on the street if they want to continue living (once again, not limited to top speed).

PS. I'm not hating on the fact that you started on an SS, just that you speak of essentially mastering every smaller engine bike because it doesn't have enough power and not realizing there is much more to experience on a motorcycle than just pure power and speed. If you choose to limit yourself to power and speed aspect, all the power to you. You'll enjoy the drag strip.

I see you have used the term "maxed out" in a much more broad sense. Clarity is welcomed and that is good. In my personal experience and out of all the brief conversations I've had when discussing maxing out the bike, it was used as a reference to top speed only; without the depth you spoke of.

By your interpretation of the term, then no I have not "mastered" the 250s and 300s because I haven't had the opportunity or time to do so. I have been focusing on my own class of bike.

That said, my criticism of the bike was meant in a much more linear way "top speed" and "power".

In regards to merging straight line speeds with cornering and turns, I've made significant improvements from last season and have greatly reduced risk of such accidents this season because of it. I have a certain mentality, behavioral patterns and habits towards approaching turns that help with reducing that risk.

I dont think it's unreasonable or inaccurate to say that if I do have a crash or accident, it would have more to do with the lack of experience on 2 wheels in general, than it would have to do with starting on a 600.



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[Genesis]

@Genesis.

I had your attitude in 2014. There was also objective proof when I went to the track with a group of riders that regularly ramped together. we were all using CBR125s, and our group was so fast we were lapping others. Our instructor never gave us a single compliment in order to keep our egos down and was incredibly critical: all that did was make us faster.

And then one by one we learned, if left uncontrolled, our egos would wreck us. One by one we had crashes that red flagged a track day. One by one we had our confidence destroyed. One by one we threw out leg over the bike after these incidents, only to realize we were now ****ing afraid.

I can't judge you for your attitude, because I understand and can relate to it. I will, however, warn you to tame your ego before it controls you. One day you will meet a rider out of your league. And if you choose to chase them, you will learn very fast the meaning behind this message.

Maybe you're right. What people dont realize is I pride myself in being a "pro-learner" and a sponge. I may disagree or argue certain things, but it doesn't mean I missed the message.

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[JP0160]

Your confidence was destroyed, gained about 50% back, and bottomed out a couple months later before my eyes. Still regret not recording at the time.

How long did it even take you after the 2nd time to get back on? Didn't you sell your bike that time?

I haven't seen you since.

It definitely shocks the confidence after the first crash, no matter how minor. I lowsided my Magna on Southwood 2 weeks ago, and now I find myself really 2nd guessing everything I do while on the bike. Don't get me wrong, still love to ride and will as much as I can, but my first crash after 40,000km on 2 wheels shook me! I think I'm back to about 80% ego at the moment. Cracked rib still doesn't feel nice though!

 

[Evoex]

I dont think it's unreasonable or inaccurate to say that if I do have a crash or accident, it would have more to do with the lack of experience on 2 wheels in general, than it would have to do with starting on a 600.

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Fairly certain this is what people have been saying all along, but with emphasis that SS are less forgiving of mistakes then their 'slow' brethren.

 

[Genesis]

Just a thought...

You know...Aside from the good intent that I know people have when giving advice to those who are thinking of starting on a 600cc or 1000cc, I think my situation and interaction with some people are kinda funny.


I mean, in reality, without the beliefs and opinions from people who have a linear path of doing things rooted in their core, I have been progressing pretty damm good with a good head on my shoulders.

Yet, if I were to sum up what I'm getting from some people since last season, it's basically:

- I dont know what I'm doing

- I must suck balls at riding (due to their preconceived notions)

- Seasoned riders can put me to shame

- I'm going to have so and so difficulties (which I've already overcome)

And again in reality, these things are just not true. In reality:

- I've literally done years of research and talking to riders before I even bought a bike (600).

- I don't suck any worse than any other new rider. As a matter of fact, I'd say that I'm closer to the top end of the spectrum when it comes to showcasing potential.

- I try to learn from seasoned riders and don't compete with them. Which is probably why I'm making the progress I'm making.


The major issues of starting a 600 SS is largely behind me now. I'm more focused on learning how to ride a bike well in general.


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[Jayv]

To find out how much you really suck or don't know go to your local track. It's a major eye opener and you will learn more things in one day, than 20 years on the street. I always thought i was a fast street rider until i started racing/trackdays. Now i ride the streets slower, but in a much more controlled way.

Modern 600 SS are pretty lethargic low down in the rev range, you have to wind them fully out to get any decent power from them.

FWIW, seasoned riders generally don't ride with new/unknown riders.

A few years ago i owned a 1000cc and 250cc for commuting. Riding both i never felt in any more in danger riding the small bike compared to the bigger bike. In fact the smaller the bike, the more nimble it is.

The old quote "i started out on a 600 and i survived" has a lot more to do with lady luck than anything else.

 

[PrivatePilot]

I don't suck any worse than any other new rider. As a matter of fact, I'd say that I'm closer to the top end of the spectrum when it comes to showcasing potential

Overconfidence has killed many a rider.

I really hope you don’t become a statistic.

 

[Genesis]

To find out how much you really suck or don't know go to your local track. It's a major eye opener and you will learn more things in one day, than 20 years on the street. I always thought i was a fast street rider until i started racing/trackdays. Now i ride the streets slower, but in a much more controlled way.

Modern 600 SS are pretty lethargic low down in the rev range, you have to wind them fully out to get any decent power from them.

FWIW, seasoned riders generally don't ride with new/unknown riders.

A few years ago i owned a 1000cc and 250cc for commuting. Riding both i never felt in any more in danger riding the small bike compared to the bigger bike. In fact the smaller the bike, the more nimble it is.

The old quote "i started out on a 600 and i survived" has a lot more to do with lady luck than anything else.

Yeah the track is a good idea and I'm planning on hitting the track soon. I heard the same.

I decided to married lady luck and I'm a very controlling husband

 

[Genesis]

Overconfidence has killed many a rider.

I really hope you don’t become a statistic.

Me too :/

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[PLau]

It definitely shocks the confidence after the first crash, no matter how minor. I lowsided my Magna on Southwood 2 weeks ago, and now I find myself really 2nd guessing everything I do while on the bike. Don't get me wrong, still love to ride and will as much as I can, but my first crash after 40,000km on 2 wheels shook me! I think I'm back to about 80% ego at the moment. Cracked rib still doesn't feel nice though!

I totally get it.
I was weary taking turns in rain for 1.5 seasons after this one:
[video=youtube;fSyuVb_YuTA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyuVb_YuTA[/video]

To regain my confidence, I literally had to say out loud to myself to not pull the clutch in fear of sliding out. I even kept telling myself it makes the turn unstable, but it did take a bit of work to overcome that fear.

I do still have a fear of wet painted lines and streetcar tracks though.

Overconfidence has killed many a rider.

I really hope you don’t become a statistic.

Yeah. I was over confident and took that turn as if it was warm and dry out.
It was the end of November- cold and wet... Stupid me.

 

[Baggsy]

If you're having trouble passing on a 600, then one of three things has happened:

You haven't learned to ride.
You're trying to pass someone doing over 160 kph.
Your bike has a major malfunction.

 

[Hyperion]

600 can still pass easily at 160. Needs rider mod

 

[gsxr guy]

600 can still pass easily at 160. Needs rider mod

Still in a second gear wheelie at that speed.

 

[Genesis]

I totally get it.
I was weary taking turns in rain for 1.5 seasons after this one:
[video=youtube;fSyuVb_YuTA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyuVb_YuTA[/video]

To regain my confidence, I literally had to say out loud to myself to not pull the clutch in fear of sliding out. I even kept telling myself it makes the turn unstable, but it did take a bit of work to overcome that fear.

I do still have a fear of wet painted lines and streetcar tracks though.



Yeah. I was over confident and took that turn as if it was warm and dry out.
It was the end of November- cold and wet... Stupid me.

Tires were no good. Take it from an expert. I can tell.

That turn didn't look all that fast. I use Q3+ so maybe that's why.

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