New Riders...Start with a smaller bike!
- Thread starter arogal
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Genesis
Well-known member
Well said. Individuality is gone nowadays. Herd mentality is the new "in" thing.
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Genesis
Well-known member
250cc has absolutely no power. Even a 300cc barely moves. Maxed out both bikes and I find the lack of power somewhat dangerous. I find it interesting that most think if you just keep going lower in cc, the rider is automatically safer. I guess if the rider needs to be saved from him/herself sure, but for the road, I feel much safer with more power when dealing with challenges outside of myself.
Even on the 600, I find that I'd be more efficient and safer if I had more power to help with passing, getting out of undesirable situations, getting to my intended point on the road quicker, turning onto a road then matching speed, etc.
Maybe I have such an opinion because I started on a R6, but when I rode those bikes I was so glad I started on a 600cc SS.
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Even on the 600, I find that I'd be more efficient and safer if I had more power to help with passing, getting out of undesirable situations, getting to my intended point on the road quicker, turning onto a road then matching speed, etc.
Maybe I have such an opinion because I started on a R6, but when I rode those bikes I was so glad I started on a 600cc SS.
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Riceburner
Well-known member
I had no problems running a 250 on the highway. It maxed out at 120km/h at that. Granted, I ran it after many years as a rider of bigger cc bikes. But as a beginner on non-highway, it was just fine. Still got away and maneuvered faster than the cages on the road. The big plus is it won't be too much power to get a beginner into trouble.
Great comment. I think way back when you might have said it is not so much the bike but the rider gets you in and out of trouble. It is all to do with reading the road and cagers. We are all invisible. That will never change. I have 162 horses.However, I would be just as happy to ride a 250. Either can get me in and out of trouble. Common sense riding. Nothing to prove to anybody, it is all about the ride.
PLau
Well-known member
If you start on a more powerful vehicle, you will think any vehicle with less power barely moves.
I disagree with the lack of power for the 300 class unless you regularly cruise at 135km/h+. If you're referring to lack of power above 135km/h I'd agree, but I try to keep myself under 50km/h over as I need my license for work and daily stuff.
Note: A Ninja 300 0-60mph time is around 5.6secs, while a Subaru BRZ (which I would consider on the upper end of power for the "average car" on the road) clocks in at ~6.1 secs from 0-60.
I would hardly consider that a bike that "barely moves".
That being said, no new rider can max out even a cbr125 in the first year unless they're consistently going to classes and practicing on the track. I don't know how you figured that you maxed out the 250/300cc class.
Very curious what you consider "maxed out" via video. Post up!
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I was just pulling your leg with the title of this thread.
PLau
Well-known member
A CBR125 will feel like a bicycle the moment you sit on it.
Short gears, high revs, turns almost like a bicycle. It's fun, but why stop at that. Try the Grom - it's a blast!
Would not recommend if you weigh 250lbs+, suspension may give.
Just lol
sburns
Well-known member
I think I tried a Grom at the training course for the M2, it felt like it could barely move me, even up a slight incline. Mind you I was just learning the basics, maybe now it would be different. But I am 6'2"
A 250cc bike might be more fun for an experiment, a rebel or some standard/cafe bike.
600s have no power..I have a 1300cc bike and 600s are for people who need to hand in their man cards. See how this goes? Now...what I just said was a load of whoeey but I’m going to make another statement which is....I’m betting you wouldn’t be able to ride a lower cc bike at 10/10ths of what it’s capable at same as me. More power is just a North American thing...the rest of the world is a little different. I had a 50cc 2 stroke dirt bike as a kid and got into plenty of trouble with it. Came off it several times, nearly rode it through the window of a carpet store, spent 15 minutes a day just razzing round the main roundabout in town, rode the bike home across the lawn of the school. Would it feel underpowered now...absolutely. Could I ride it to it’s maximum capacity? Actually, probably not if I’m being honest. I’m incredibly grateful that I started on a lower cc bike as it helped develop good habits and I walked away from my offs with scuffed knees and hurt pride instead of broken bones and a different lifestyle.
Theres a real reason why graduated licensing is so popular in many countries and why the insurance industry here effectively accomplishes the same thing. It works.
There are track guys who would shellac you riding a 250 on everything except the dead straightaways.
It doesn’t take skill to go fast in a straight line. Every squid who’s ever started on a SS is able to prove that in short order.
But it doesn’t make you a skilled rider. To the contrary actually.
I know you think otherwise, but some track time will humble you in short order.
This is so true. I rode the ape to a demo day to try a wee-strom. Holy hell, it felt so slow I couldn't believe it (and soooo much shifting was required). Many many people have put many many enjoyable km's on wee-stroms. It just depends on your reference point. Coming from a car, any bike is quick (and most are fast).
Ninja 300 top speed is ~180 km/h. That is entirely acceptable power for any riding in Ontario. Is more power more fun? Sure, most of the time, but the 300 has more power than you need to ride safely on any road in Ontario.
Genesis
Well-known member
Genesis
Well-known member
I guess it is as you said in the beginning, I see the 300 as barely moving because I'm used to the R6.
In regards to no new riders being able to max out the 300, I started last season and nearing the end of that season I had the chance to try out a friends 300. I maxed it out unintentionally at 160 km ish when I realized I simply couldn't go faster (which is effortlessly done on the R6). It didn't help that I was riding with other 600s so I couldn't help but notice the difference.
Maybe if I rode it by myself it wouldn't have seemed so lacking.
About the video...is it really that unbelieveable to max out the top speed of a 300?? Lol
And...self incriminating vids are never a good thing
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Genesis
Well-known member
I swear lol. When I got on a 250 last year, I thought the thing was broken because of how weak it was.
300 was definitely better but nothing to toot a horn about. Depends on the persons personality, mentality and preference.
There are people that will say: "you never need a litre bike because a 600 is more than enough for the road"
While others who laugh at that and still chase after more power beyond a litre bike.
Really depends on the person.
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IAnd...self incriminating vids are never a good thing
Neither is posting stories about driving a minimum of 60-ish% over the speed limit, which is legal precisicly nowhere in the province except a track.
PLau
Well-known member
I guess it is as you said in the beginning, I see the 300 as barely moving because I'm used to the R6.
In regards to no new riders being able to max out the 300, I started last season and nearing the end of that season I had the chance to try out a friends 300. I maxed it out unintentionally at 160 km ish when I realized I simply couldn't go faster (which is effortlessly done on the R6). It didn't help that I was riding with other 600s so I couldn't help but notice the difference.
Maybe if I rode it by myself it wouldn't have seemed so lacking.
About the video...is it really that unbelieveable to max out the top speed of a 300?? Lol
And...self incriminating vids are never a good thing
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This is where you and 90% of people on this thread would disagree.
No one is talking about "Maxing out" the bike in regards to top speed, rather, people are talking about actually being able to ride and control the bike to it's potential.
This is why people are disagreeing with you as it takes little to no skill to twist the throttle to as fast as possible.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
You find joy in going fast in a straight line, while pretty much everyone here is talking about being able to ride the motorcycle well.
You can definitely do some cornering to demonstrate the control you have of your bike without "incriminating yourself".
If you're talking about hitting the top speed while coming out of a corner (before your bike is pretty much standing up), that is another story.
One of the issues with starting on a larger bike is that people, like yourself, get too used to the fast speeds and don't really experience what to do when a situation arises. It desensitizes the rider at those fast speeds, but never really learn how to control it when a sharp turn comes up quicker than expected where hard braking and appropriate speed to enter the turn need to be considered.
To quote OP's experience one year ago:
This is one of the many reasons why you can often see many people on 125-500cc bikes pass Supersports on the track.
With all that said, nobody should even be coming close to "maxing out" their bike when riding on the street if they want to continue living (once again, not limited to top speed).
PS. I'm not hating on the fact that you started on an SS, just that you speak of essentially mastering every smaller engine bike because it doesn't have enough power and not realizing there is much more to experience on a motorcycle than just pure power and speed. If you choose to limit yourself to power and speed aspect, all the power to you. You'll enjoy the drag strip.
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@Genesis.
I had your attitude in 2014. There was also objective proof when I went to the track with a group of riders that regularly ramped together. we were all using CBR125s, and our group was so fast we were lapping others. Our instructor never gave us a single compliment in order to keep our egos down and was incredibly critical: all that did was make us faster.
And then one by one we learned, if left uncontrolled, our egos would wreck us. One by one we had crashes that red flagged a track day. One by one we had our confidence destroyed. One by one we threw out leg over the bike after these incidents, only to realize we were now ****ing afraid.
I can't judge you for your attitude, because I understand and can relate to it. I will, however, warn you to tame your ego before it controls you. One day you will meet a rider out of your league. And if you choose to chase them, you will learn very fast the meaning behind this message.
I had your attitude in 2014. There was also objective proof when I went to the track with a group of riders that regularly ramped together. we were all using CBR125s, and our group was so fast we were lapping others. Our instructor never gave us a single compliment in order to keep our egos down and was incredibly critical: all that did was make us faster.
And then one by one we learned, if left uncontrolled, our egos would wreck us. One by one we had crashes that red flagged a track day. One by one we had our confidence destroyed. One by one we threw out leg over the bike after these incidents, only to realize we were now ****ing afraid.
I can't judge you for your attitude, because I understand and can relate to it. I will, however, warn you to tame your ego before it controls you. One day you will meet a rider out of your league. And if you choose to chase them, you will learn very fast the meaning behind this message.
