Police Look To Identify Group Of Stunt Driving Motorcyclists

[jc100]

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No, perspective.
We got bigger issues to deal with.
Is your kid/friend/family member likely to be stabbed/shot/robbed or are they likely to get killed by a stunter?

Thats a bit of a false equivalency. Considering one is likely dealt with by one division of the police and the other by separate units. My personal preference...deal with both. Before the person with a knife stabs someone he's just someone carrying a knife. Before a tosspot on a bike with entitlement issues causes a serious accident he's just a tosspot on a bike.

 

[Baggsy]

Stunters killing ppl = 0
stabbings = more than 10 that I am aware of
shootings = more than 10 that I am aware of
pedestrian killed by bicyclist = 1 (old lady last week)
missing people = ??
gun dealers = ??
drug dealers = ??
drunk drivers = ??
distracted drivers = ??

Perspective??

When one finally does manage to kill themselves, who will the grieving family sue for not trying to stop them if we do nothing?

Perspective.

 

[hedo2002]

Your post makes it "appear" as though the entire TPS is focused upon these stunt riders and that NONE of the other issues are being dealt with. I have seen plenty of media coverage focused on the shooting death of the 17 year old, in Pizza Pizza early Sunday morning. So indeed it does "appear" as though TPS is dealing with other issues at the same time.

The officers "looking at this issue" will be specialized "Traffic Unit Detectives", they wouldn't be involved in gun or knife crimes in any extent. They are also no doubt investigating the pedestrian hit by the cyclist, (who they can't current identify, due to the bike having NO identifiers)...hmm sounds familiar. #perspective

Stunters killing ppl = 0
stabbings = more than 10 that I am aware of
shootings = more than 10 that I am aware of
pedestrian killed by bicyclist = 1 (old lady last week)
missing people = ??
gun dealers = ??
drug dealers = ??
drunk drivers = ??
distracted drivers = ??

Perspective??

 

[PrivatePilot]

82.2 generally applies to commercial rigs. The notorious "truck jail" was enacted because of the flying truck wheels killing people.

82.2 is not written specific to commercial vehicles, it's a universal law for all vehicles on the road and is equally as legitimate when used for a motorcycle or passenger vehicle as it is when used for a commercial truck. Of course a lot of people may not like it because they feel they shouldn't be held to the same safety standards, right?

As for flying wheels, the industry has that issue cleaned up - funny you mention it, as the last 6 or 8 vehicles I've seen sitting on the shoulder of the road missing a tire have been passenger vehicles, and one travel trailer.

Anyhow, I guess I shouldn't find it surprising that on a motorcycle centric forum there are plenty who wish to defend people who drive motorcycles like idiots, particularly when there's a lot of (probably not unfounded) suspicion that some of the very offenders we are talking about are on the same forum, perhaps even participating in this very thread.

But, like it or not, regardless of any and all arguments, these people are screwing ALL of us. Public perception, Law enforcement attention, and insurance company attention - three big things that are going in the wrong direction with this one, all of which have the potential to make life difficult for each and every one of us regardless of what we ride, how we ride, and where we ride.

How anyone can defend these people, accordingly, is beyond me.

 

[hedo2002]

This type of legislation has been around for decades. I recall using it, (or a similar OLD section of the HTA), way back in the late 70's early 80's to "inspect" a vehicle roadside, and pull the plates to impound a CLEARLY unsafe passenger car.

So as PP and Bike cop has also stated it can be used by ANY police officer on ANY vehicle it is not merely restricted to Commercial Vehicles, just that is where and when it is most utilized.

82.2 is not written specific to commercial vehicles, it's a universal law for all vehicles on the road and is equally as legitimate when used for a motorcycle or passenger vehicle as it is when used for a commercial truck. Of course a lot of people may not like it because they feel they shouldn't be held to the same safety standards, right?

As for flying wheels, the industry has that issue cleaned up - funny you mention it, as the last 6 or 8 vehicles I've seen sitting on the shoulder of the road missing a tire have been passenger vehicles, and one travel trailer.

Anyhow, I guess I shouldn't find it surprising that on a motorcycle centric forum there are plenty who wish to defend people who drive motorcycles like idiots, particularly when there's a lot of (probably not unfounded) suspicion that some of the very offenders we are talking about are on the same forum, perhaps even participating in this very thread.

But, like it or not, regardless of any and all arguments, these people are screwing ALL of us. Public perception, Law enforcement attention, and insurance company attention - three big things that are going in the wrong direction with this one, all of which have the potential to make life difficult for each and every one of us regardless of what we ride, how we ride, and where we ride.

How anyone can defend these people, accordingly, is beyond me.

 

[ddusseld]

This.

Tired old cliche trotted out again. Everything is a rrright if you meet the qualifiers there tiger. If "they" can't deny you it's hardly a privilege.

 

[PrivatePilot]

If "they" can't deny you it's hardly a privilege.

Since a few people wish to latch onto the "driving is a right, not a privilege" reverse of my earlier argument, keep in mind that something as simple as not being able to pass the medical requirements can cause you to not be eligible for a licence to begin with, or to have it revoked down the road.

And of course, there's that whole pesky thing about getting too many infractions on your licence that can also cause it to become invalid.

There are others. Try not paying child support, for example.

So yeah, you most certainly can be "denied" a drivers licence.

 

[Neil_V]

Anyhow, I guess I shouldn't find it surprising that on a motorcycle centric forum there are plenty who wish to defend people who drive motorcycles like idiots, particularly when there's a lot of (probably not unfounded) suspicion that some of the very offenders we are talking about are on the same forum, perhaps even participating in this very thread.

Reaching man. I think most of us are defending our right to not be unjustly painted with the same brush based solely on the type of bike we choose to ride. Not unlike you passionately defending responsible haulers when others paint you all with the same brush. I could link the thread, but I'm lazy; you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Neil_V]

This type of legislation has been around for decades. I recall using it, (or a similar OLD section of the HTA), way back in the late 70's early 80's to "inspect" a vehicle roadside, and pull the plates to impound a CLEARLY unsafe passenger car.

But do you support using it at say, a moto rally, to pull over every SS that passes?

 

[ZX600]

It can be a small piece if other serious evidence is in play, you made it sound like the triangulation was a slam dunk and they were just trying to find other evidence to corroborate.

All I was saying is that you take the several incidents that happened, cross reference the data that can be gathered and deduct who was in the area. This is not make believe. If you followed the Tim Bosma case, this is how they tracked the movement of 3 cell phones and the 2 convicted murderers. The thing is this takes a lot of resources ($$$) and would need a serious reason for them to do so. If these rouge motorcycle mobs are serious enough for the investigation to follow up on it could happen, so don't scoff at this.
It all comes down to resources and if they really need to find out members of these groups.

 

[-D-]

When one finally does manage to kill themselves, who will the grieving family sue for not trying to stop them if we do nothing?

Perspective.

Trying to stop them, the same principal would apply as if it were a drunk driver...would be my guess.

 

[-D-]

Your post makes it "appear" as though the entire TPS is focused upon these stunt riders and that NONE of the other issues are being dealt with. I have seen plenty of media coverage focused on the shooting death of the 17 year old, in Pizza Pizza early Sunday morning. So indeed it does "appear" as though TPS is dealing with other issues at the same time.

The officers "looking at this issue" will be specialized "Traffic Unit Detectives", they wouldn't be involved in gun or knife crimes in any extent. They are also no doubt investigating the pedestrian hit by the cyclist, (who they can't current identify, due to the bike having NO identifiers)...hmm sounds familiar. #perspective

I was commenting on some ppl here who seem to think this is all the police should be focusing on.
It's called triage/priority...I used perspective meaning for the outsiders to look at it from the police point of view that they have other things to deal with.

See, you are more likely to get shot and killed eating somewhere.

 

[hedo2002]

No, I was merely replying to the poster who stated that section was strictly for commercial vehicles and did not apply to cars or bikes. At the time it was only of the few "tools" we had to use to get a jalopy off the road. Just as back in the day we often used section 10 of the Mental Health Act, to get people off the streets when it was -35. It is no longer used, (sometimes causing people to freeze to death).

But one of the tools that do exist today is document checks. If these rides continue then of course we are going to see the implementation of such spot checks. Again doesn't mean I support it's use. It is no more profiling than if the same store is robbed 5X, each time by a white male wearing a black jacket. Does that mean an officer on patrol seeing a white male wearing a black jacket in the same area should simply roll on by or should he stop for a chat?

Now if everyone in one of these rides was observed riding a red honda CBR, then it wouldn't be prudent to stop and check someone on a Blue Ninja, or a Harley...lol BUT unfortunately the riders in these rides have a wide selection of bikes and all colors.

Not saying I agree with the tactic, just that I can see them being implemented. The police and politicians have to be "seen to be doing something", it sucks but it is the few in these rides that have tainted it for all SS riders. A document check is a legal tactic, so it very well may be used in the future. So why then be ****** at the police as opposed to those who caused it to be implemented?

But do you support using it at say, a moto rally, to pull over every SS that passes?

 

[BigEvilDoer]

Trying to stop them, the same principal would apply as if it were a drunk driver...would be my guess.

D, you're obviously in favour of letting people stunt on public streets and generally behave like jacka$$es.
If memory serves correct, earlier this year a kid binned is stunt bike on the Linc in Hamilton, and ended up under a bus that he was showing off for.
This caused massive traffic issues, simply 'cause a kid wanted to show how cool he was. Hopefully they applied all clean up and bus repairs to the rider (it was noted he didn't have a plate, and therefor likely no insurance).

Me, I wouldn't care less if the cops took a more "active" role in bringing these stunters down like they do at the ROC in St. Louis. If a stunter gets hurt, too bad so sad.

Do I have fun on the roads sometimes? Sure. Do I do it to show off or on major highways or congested areas? nope.

 

[Face]

No, I was merely replying to the poster who stated that section was strictly for commercial vehicles and did not apply to cars or bikes. At the time it was only of the few "tools" we had to use to get a jalopy off the road. Just as back in the day we often used section 10 of the Mental Health Act, to get people off the streets when it was -35. It is no longer used, (sometimes causing people to freeze to death).

But one of the tools that do exist today is document checks. If these rides continue then of course we are going to see the implementation of such spot checks. Again doesn't mean I support it's use. It is no more profiling than if the same store is robbed 5X, each time by a white male wearing a black jacket. Does that mean an officer on patrol seeing a white male wearing a black jacket in the same area should simply roll on by or should he stop for a chat?

Now if everyone in one of these rides was observed riding a red honda CBR, then it wouldn't be prudent to stop and check someone on a Blue Ninja, or a Harley...lol BUT unfortunately the riders in these rides have a wide selection of bikes and all colors.

Not saying I agree with the tactic, just that I can see them being implemented. The police and politicians have to be "seen to be doing something", it sucks but it is the few in these rides that have tainted it for all SS riders. A document check is a legal tactic, so it very well may be used in the future. So why then be ****** at the police as opposed to those who caused it to be implemented?

I noticed that you said "white male" not black. Is it also appropriate to be stopping, questioning and requiring ID for every black male you see if there was a robbery in the area perpetrated by a black man a few days ago? I believe that's called carding.

We agree that randomly stopping any SS a cop sees is more about a fishing expedition and to be "seen to be doing something", and isn't right.

I haven't seen anyone here defending the stunters for doing what they were doing where and when they were doing it. And no one is saying the police shouldn't review videos, speak to witnesses etc to try to track down these guys. What some, including myself, are reacting to, is the wide open position that some here are taking saying that the police should do what ever it takes to get these guys, regardless of whether it is an abuse of the law or peoples rights and freedoms. We also can't excuse insurance companies and only blame the riders if the companies take advantage of the publicity to raise rates or deny coverage for SS bikes even though there have been very little actual costs associated with these incidents (I'm thinking the 2 fires). 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Btw, I'm over 50, ride a sport touring bike with the OEM rear tail assembly, and was in another province at the time these incidents occurred.

 

[Baggsy]

No one is saying whatever it takes either. As the issue becomes higher profile and/or more common, the police need to take more of an interest.

 

[Neil_V]

D, you're obviously in favour of letting people stunt on public streets and generally behave like jacka$$es.
If memory serves correct, earlier this year a kid binned is stunt bike on the Linc in Hamilton, and ended up under a bus that he was showing off for.
This caused massive traffic issues, simply 'cause a kid wanted to show how cool he was. Hopefully they applied all clean up and bus repairs to the rider (it was noted he didn't have a plate, and therefor likely no insurance).

He clipped a car trying to lane split through a curve and the bus ran him over; first I heard of showing off for the bus, but the group was most definitely pulling wheelies some time before the crash.

edit; Actually occurred at the bottom of the 403 cut

No one is saying whatever it takes either. As the issue becomes higher profile and/or more common, the police need to take more of an interest.

Could've fooled me

 

[Neil_V]

No, I was merely replying to the poster who stated that section was strictly for commercial vehicles and did not apply to cars or bikes.

Yeah I know; was just curious as to where you stood.

 

[-D-]

D, you're obviously in favour of letting people stunt on public streets and generally behave like jacka$$es.
If memory serves correct, earlier this year a kid binned is stunt bike on the Linc in Hamilton, and ended up under a bus that he was showing off for.
This caused massive traffic issues, simply 'cause a kid wanted to show how cool he was. Hopefully they applied all clean up and bus repairs to the rider (it was noted he didn't have a plate, and therefor likely no insurance).

Me, I wouldn't care less if the cops took a more "active" role in bringing these stunters down like they do at the ROC in St. Louis. If a stunter gets hurt, too bad so sad. Do I have fun on the roads sometimes? Sure. Do I do it to show off or on major highways or congested areas? nope.

Easy there Jack Reacher, perhaps you should actually read what I wrote previous before making those kinds of statements.

 

[yodude]

Reaching man. I think most of us are defending our right to not be unjustly painted with the same brush based solely on the type of bike we choose to ride. Not unlike you passionately defending responsible haulers when others paint you all with the same brush. I could link the thread, but I'm lazy; you know what I'm talking about.

barely scratching the surface, some similarities but mostly apples & oranges

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