Does a lounder exhaust save lives?

[-JERICHO-]

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But in the end if you are convinced that louder pipes will save your life then by all means get them installed, of course bearing in mind it could result, (depending upon the level of noise and how you "use" it), there could be ramifications, (tickets etc). I am totally convince at this point. lol

lol The op seems to be now leaning towards an exhaust which would be somewhere in the ball park of 10dB louder.

Well I only stated 10dB in the revised question to be more specific because certain loud pipes are just obscene as we have previously discussed. Also I stated 10dB because even though it seems like that isn't a lot in terms of "power". The studies and tests that I observed contained increases in dB levels by 5dB per sound test, to a maximum of 105dB, and there were 1000 tests per subject, which obviously means repeated examples. The graph they used to show all the results showed that a minimum increase of 10dB narrowed the band of accuracy (reaction time) significantly.

the main point for me was an awareness on his part and his scanning around for the source. That's all I'd ask for or expect from other drivers. If that comes about because of the added noise of my exhaust then, to me, that pretty much vindicates the loud(er) exhaust case.

In terms of safety, I can only hope for awareness and scanning. I cannot assume that drivers will actually see me or not do something stupid despite knowing I'm somewhere nearby so, as I said, the rest is still up to me.

Precisely.

 

[Joe Bass]

Posting in this thread as I didn't think I needed to start a new one. Just wanted to share a little story. Was driving around with my 3 year old and he spots a Goldwing. He loves bikes and likes to point them out. As the bike pulls up, he says "it looks like a motorcycle, but it doesn't sound like one!" lol. So I guess my boy likes loud pipes. ?

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy far, far away using Tapatalk

 

[griff2]

Well I only stated 10dB in the revised question to be more specific because certain loud pipes are just obscene as we have previously discussed. Also I stated 10dB because even though it seems like that isn't a lot in terms of "power". The studies and tests that I observed contained increases in dB levels by 5dB per sound test, to a maximum of 105dB, and there were 1000 tests per subject, which obviously means repeated examples. The graph they used to show all the results showed that a minimum increase of 10dB narrowed the band of accuracy (reaction time) significantly.



Precisely.

The dB scale is logarithmic. A 10 dB increase is a doubling of noise volume.

 

[-JERICHO-]

The dB scale is logarithmic. A 10 dB increase is a doubling of noise volume.

As long as its under the dB for our laws, it doesn't matter really. Every bike model is going to have a different dB to begin with, so that will have to be done case by case.

 

[Baggsy]

Meh, I have nice noise dampening and a very loud sound system in my soccer mom van.

The only pipes I ever hear are the open ones, and they tend to echo so that you can't tell which direction the noise comes from anyways.

Humans rely on sight to determine things. Unless it's a blind person driving, sound isn't going to help you much.

 

[fastar1]

So much rationalization happening here.

The bottom line is there are several occasions when I've heard a bike before I've seen it, and hearing it prompted me to look for it and find it. I assume it's the same for most people, and if they would have missed a bike that they needed to see, that's a hazardous situation that's been eliminated, perhaps a life saved.

I still say loud pipes are too much of a public nuisance for whatever marginal theoretical benefit they provide, but they DO provide a benefit. Being more noticeable tends to have that effect when riding.

 

[-JERICHO-]

Humans rely on sight to determine things. Unless it's a blind person driving, sound isn't going to help you much.

Sorry that just isn't true. They rely on more than just sight, unless you were born with an abnormality which limits your hearing.

Under optimal conditions, humans can, even with their eyes closed, localize the direction of sound sources to an accuracy of a few degrees. That is not a trivial feat. Just try to imagine you had to work out the location of all the boats, fish, swimmers at a beach purely by analyzing the pattern of waves and ripples on the surface of that waterway. This isn't a theory, its proven science. There are a ton of scientific models out there to prove this. Forget loud exhausts, this is human biology.

Errors in sound localization can impede communication and may pose threats to self and others in a commonly encountered environment such as a busy intersection or any kind of traffic. One of many factors that can hinder effective utilization of auditory spatial input is advancing age. Both peripheral and central age-related auditory deficits, such as high-frequency hearing loss or decline in temporal processing, can impact the utilization of the auditory spatial cues involved in sound localization.

So either you are causing yourself not to hear the sound because as you stated you are muffling the sound with dampening material (which kind?) OR you are advanced in age and have started to deteriorate and are losing normal function of parts of your brain, limiting your abilities. Neither of which take away any merit for a louder exhaust.

So much rationalization happening here.

The bottom line is there are several occasions when I've heard a bike before I've seen it, and hearing it prompted me to look for it and find it. I assume it's the same for most people, and if they would have missed a bike that they needed to see, that's a hazardous situation that's been eliminated, perhaps a life saved.

I still say loud pipes are too much of a public nuisance for whatever marginal theoretical benefit they provide, but they DO provide a benefit. Being more noticeable tends to have that effect when riding.

I hear you on that. Some exhausts are just ridiculous.. I feel though that a life saved by an annoying sound is acceptable to me. GTA traffic is no joke and any way I can have to make sure I am noticed is good by me, as long as its legal.

 

[Baggsy]

Sorry that just isn't true. They rely on more than just sight, unless you were born with an abnormality which limits your hearing.

Under optimal conditions, humans can, even with their eyes closed, localize the direction of sound sources to an accuracy of a few degrees. That is not a trivial feat. Just try to imagine you had to work out the location of all the boats, fish, swimmers at a beach purely by analyzing the pattern of waves and ripples on the surface of that waterway. This isn't a theory, its proven science. There are a ton of scientific models out there to prove this. Forget loud exhausts, this is human biology.

Errors in sound localization can impede communication and may pose threats to self and others in a commonly encountered environment such as a busy intersection or any kind of traffic. One of many factors that can hinder effective utilization of auditory spatial input is advancing age. Both peripheral and central age-related auditory deficits, such as high-frequency hearing loss or decline in temporal processing, can impact the utilization of the auditory spatial cues involved in sound localization.

So either you are causing yourself not to hear the sound because as you stated you are muffling the sound with dampening material (which kind?) OR you are advanced in age and have started to deteriorate and are losing normal function of parts of your brain, limiting your abilities. Neither of which take away any merit for a louder exhaust.



I hear you on that. Some exhausts are just ridiculous.. I feel though that a life saved by an annoying sound is acceptable to me. GTA traffic is no joke and any way I can have to make sure I am noticed is good by me, as long as its legal.

Deaf people are permitted to drive, do you propose banning them from the roads?

You can tell that to the guy I almost hit. His loud exhaust actually sounded as if it were behind me from the echo in the valley, and he was so close to the back of the truck, that I couldn't see him, as I started to pull out.
Only because of a second look, did I not pull out into him.

If I need to sound louder, I can lower a gear and rev my engine with the stock pipe. There's no need to annoy.

 

[griff2]

If I need to sound louder, I can lower a gear and rev my engine with the stock pipe. There's no need to annoy.

I just hit my horn button. If louder saves lives, then why are horn buttons not wired so they are permanently on?

 

[Baggsy]

I just hit my horn button. If louder saves lives, then why are horn buttons not wired so they are permanently on?

I have a 110 decibel horn. I rarely need to use it.

 

[-JERICHO-]

Deaf people are permitted to drive, do you propose banning them from the roads?

You can tell that to the guy I almost hit. His loud exhaust actually sounded as if it were behind me from the echo in the valley, and he was so close to the back of the truck, that I couldn't see him, as I started to pull out.
Only because of a second look, did I not pull out into him.

If I need to sound louder, I can lower a gear and rev my engine with the stock pipe. There's no need to annoy.

There is absolutely nothing in my post that even remotely comes near that ridiculous question you invented. I am simply letting you know that the science behind my post will never change based on your personal encounters. I only tried to say that sight AND sound are what humans use to tell whats going on.

There are hundreds of studies that show that the majority of humans can localize where a sound is coming from within a few degrees. Even with many other sounds, and distortion. If 1 motorcycle in the valley was making it hard for you to know where the sound was coming from perhaps a trip to a hearing doctor is worth considering.

By lowering your gear and revving your engine you are in effect creating a noise to be heard. So you do in fact agree that loud pipes save lives because you yourself have a tactic which employs sound that you use. That isn't your horn. Because you barely need to use that.

:wav:

 

[griff2]

By lowering your gear and revving your engine you are in effect creating a noise to be heard. So you do in fact agree that loud pipes save lives because you yourself have a tactic which employs sound that you use. That isn't your horn. Because you barely need to use that.

The problem is that most drivers do not associate some dirtbag's loud pipes as being a warning signal. They just assume (in most cases rightfully so) that the rider just likes obnoxiously loud pipes for the oohs and ahhhs that he thinks they generate from the sidewalk peanut gallery.

In other words, any life-saving effect from loud pipes is mostly a myth.

On the other hand, most people instantly recognize a full-on blaring horn as being a danger warning signal. That is a learned response ingrained into most people from childhood. That is what has more effect in potentially saving lives.

 

[fastar1]

I just hit my horn button. If louder saves lives, then why are horn buttons not wired so they are permanently on?

Because that would be annoying as hell, just like loud pipes. But more than that, it would defeat the purpose to do it with all vehicles, as none of them would stand out any more.

 

[-JERICHO-]

The problem is that most drivers do not associate some dirtbag's loud pipes as being a warning signal. They just assume (in most cases rightfully so) that the rider just likes obnoxiously loud pipes for the oohs and ahhhs that he thinks they generate from the sidewalk peanut gallery.

In other words, any life-saving effect from loud pipes is mostly a myth.

On the other hand, most people instantly recognize a full-on blaring horn as being a danger warning signal. That is a learned response ingrained into most people from childhood. That is what has more effect in potentially saving lives.

That was hilarious.

I am going to have to disagree with all of this. The "dirtbag's" exhaust is meant to be a distinct sound to signal that there is a bike in the area. (which it usually is) Not to act as an emergency signal of danger. As a horn is intended. "they" as you refer to them are all vehicular traffic, which you cannot speak for. That is ridiculous.

How can you make a statement like "any life-saving effect from loud pipes is mostly a myth" That is tantamount to refuting the all the research done on Sound localization, and auditory neurosciences. The sound of the pipe can be swapped for anything in any scenario. Our ability to use this ability is not hampered by anything in this situation other than what it looks like is hatred for these "dirtbag's"

The sound of a motorcycle was pretty ingrained into me as a child. Same with an ambulance, and a police car, and a fire truck. They all sounded different. I was able to tell them apart, and most if not all of my peers as well.

 

[griff2]

How can you make a statement like "any life-saving effect from loud pipes is mostly a myth" That is tantamount to refuting the all the research done on Sound localization, and auditory neurosciences. The sound of the pipe can be swapped for anything in any scenario. Our ability to use this ability is not hampered by anything in this situation other than what it looks like is hatred for these "dirtbag's"

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourcei...v=2&ie=UTF-8#q="loud pipes saves lives" myth+

 

[油井緋色]

Gotta leave it to the regular two to grab a sword and board to defend against science facts lol

I instinctively look for bikes but have heard them coming before I've seen 'em. Don't have anything against it. Some of the cruisers can be rather annoying but meh, it's not like you hear them for long anyway.

 

[-JERICHO-]

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourcei...v=2&ie=UTF-8#q="loud pipes saves lives" myth+

Is this another joke? lol.. because its funny..

All your articles are from places like..

virginaievolution.com

virginaiawind.com

motohouston.com

straightdope.com

topix.com

These articles are purely opinion based and offer ZERO in terms of scientific research. Fluff to garner clicks is where you get your vital information.

Spend of few $$ on your own mind and visit these places..

http://www.annualreviews.org
Sound Localization by Human Listeners

http://www.neurology.org
Clinical Significance of Impairment of Sound Localization

http://scitation.aip.org
Head Movements During Sound Localization
Effect of Induced Head Movements on Localization of Direction of Sounds

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp
On the simulation of sound localization

http://www.sciencedirect.com/
The nature and distribution of errors in sound localization by human listeners

If you want to ignore science. Go on. No one will care, but to pretend it doesn't exist so your agenda can be met is fairly lame. You not reading things doesn't make them invalid or unreal. Perhaps start with something simple and read about "sound".

 

[RichinOville]

Haven't read this whole, space eating post.
But I wanted to add, in case it hadn't, something that I once read a very wise man wrote....



If load pipes actually saved lives, just imagine what learning to ride the bike could do....

 

[Flywheel]

Claiming that "science" behind paywalls supports an argument is pretty disingenuous. Who knows what articles are being referred to? Reading abstracts doesn't understanding either. The range of hearing in the general public would probably disqualify most of the science as being practical to use in policy. Actual scientists would know this--experiments are highly controlled environments for a reason, to eliminate accidental bias and contamination. Real world vehicles/exhausts, traffic, weather and topography are the absolute opposite of controlled environments.

 

[fastar1]

This obsession over what the science does or doesn't say is irrelevant. It's an indication of our cult-like obsession with science that the subject even comes up when simple logic alone can resolve the question.

Simply ask yourself if you've ever heard a bike before you've seen it? If yes, then you have to conclude that many others have too and in all probability loud pipes will have saved a life at some point.

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