More police training needed before being allowed to carry a gun.

geoff-9 said:
witnesses in one of the star articles said the officers yelled 5 times to drop the gun then he turned it on them... then they fired
Click to expand...
If the guy had a gun and he made any attempts to point it or turn into the officers, I agree that they should fire.
 
I was under the impression that he was an innocent bystander. If he had an uncased gun in public transit and didn't drop it when instructed to do so by police constables.... Who's up for some Swiss Cheese? :cool:
 
I have a real problem with these incidents because I know that the training tools are out there, and that multiple forces in the province including the Police colleges have them. For many years there have been systems available that are specifically designed to teach shoot/no-shoot and accuracy under stress to law enforcement and they are very effective. The problem is that these systems are not being used even when the departments have them. They sit gathering dust. I've gone through some of the scenarios myself and can tell you for sure that if the officers were getting regular training with them we wouldn't be seeing incidents like this.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
That part I can see... Firing when the clock is running is a lot different than firing off a line and I can only begin to imagine how it would be if the target can shoot back. Never shot .40 out of tupperware but I found it to be snappier than 9mm. Shot a G17 and the accuracy I got was pretty decent compared to my big hunk of Czech steel that I wouldn't want on my hip all day every day. The coyote incident indicates that this wasn't just shooting under stress- too many of our LEO's suffer from pisspoor marksmanship syndrome. Can't just blame it on the guns either. I know plenty of cops who run their DAO tupperware in .40 on the clock and can make me look bad while they're having an off-day. That takes practice that only an enthusiast is willing to put in, though.
Click to expand...

Well "most" are not trained to properly operate a firearm, let alone handle it under pressure.

If they're at least trained they have a fighting chance when the situation arises
 
people who protest use of force in this instance puzzle me... an obviously unhinged armed suspect enters a public area brandishing a gun and is heard to yell to cops "I have no reason to live anyway" and then turns the weapon on police.... What exactly would these pacifist arm chair quarter backs do at this point?

Sorry, I am of the mind that regardless of your mental stability, you endanger the public/police with a weapon, all bets are off. Doesn't mean I support blasting them before even attempting to negotiate, but enough is enough. What if they just allowed this nutter to start blasting away at them? I value the life of a policeman more than a lowlife piece of **** taking a gun into a subway. Or a knife, for that matter. Using this mental illness crap as a means to avoid the criminal aspect is getting out of hand now.
 
stevex said:
people who protest use of force in this instance puzzle me... an obviously unhinged armed suspect enters a public area brandishing a gun and is heard to yell to cops "I have no reason to live anyway" and then turns the weapon on police.... What exactly would these pacifist arm chair quarter backs do at this point?

Sorry, I am of the mind that regardless of your mental stability, you endanger the public/police with a weapon, all bets are off. Doesn't mean I support blasting them before even attempting to negotiate, but enough is enough. What if they just allowed this nutter to start blasting away at them? I value the life of a policeman more than a lowlife piece of **** taking a gun into a subway. Or a knife, for that matter. Using this mental illness crap as a means to avoid the criminal aspect is getting out of hand now.
Click to expand...

While I agree with most of what you said, I'd have no problems with a responsible individual taking a gun or a knife on the subway as long as they are being legally transported. I wouldn't even have problems with them being concealed or open carried had it been legal to do so. I draw the line at brandishing them and obviously using them for any reason other than defending yourself (or someone else) from a violent attack.
 
I don't think anybody in this thread is protesting the use of force. I, at least, am protesting this particular instance of seemingly incompetent use of force.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
I don't think anybody in this thread is protesting the use of force. I, at least, am protesting this particular instance of seemingly incompetent use of force.
Click to expand...

From what I understand only the guy brandishing a firearm on the subway got shot? What's the problem?
 
FiReSTaRT said:
While I agree with most of what you said, I'd have no problems with a responsible individual taking a gun or a knife on the subway as long as they are being legally transported. I wouldn't even have problems with them being concealed or open carried had it been legal to do so. I draw the line at brandishing them and obviously using them for any reason other than defending yourself (or someone else) from a violent attack.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry if I sounded a little too ambiguous in my post but what you said is how I feel
 
TwistedKestrel said:
I don't think anybody in this thread is protesting the use of force. I, at least, am protesting this particular instance of seemingly incompetent use of force.
Click to expand...

was referring to the actual protest held downtown by a bunch of idiot hippies decrying the use of force by the police
 
EaZ8 said:
i believe police are trained to shoot at 25 yrds but to pass the annual (i think its annual, it may be every 3 yrs) test it is 7 yrds, full mag on the paper on target..which really, isnt that hard.

another thing is a lot of cops are opting for the shorter barrel plastic guns like glock 22 or 23 and smith and wesson m&p40 just because of the carry weight. really most cops here will never do anything more than unbuckle their holster pouch when approaching a swerving car, ive heard of gun smiths pulling the corners of ketchup packets out of the older sig p226's when they use to carry those.

the problem with the plastic guns is the .40sw they are using is very snappy and hard to shoot, add in the light frames, crappy OEM triggers, the add the duty carry heavy spring kits they have to have in there and it makes shooting follow up shots very difficult for those who dont regularly train with their carry weapon. and the further their target is the wider their shooting group gets.
they need to think about switching to 9mm (maybe even +p) rounds like the mil did.
Click to expand...

I Carry an M&P.40 for work purposes. Please Stop spreading misinformation.
 
Very simple......you pull a weapon out in public you get shot by police. That's why they carry guns,if the suspect shot someone everyone would be crying " why didn't the police shoot them" it's a lose lose. I haven't been shot by police you know why ??? I'm not a ****** that carry's a weapon when i'm not permitted.

It's that simple.
 
apextech said:
I Carry an M&P.40 for work purposes. Please Stop spreading misinformation.
Click to expand...

where is the mis information about it?
smith and wesson makes a specific model for duty (not on their website). i know brinks has it and they even have their logo imprinted on the slide and if you work for them you can buy your own built with the duty kit.. it has heavier springs in it than the commercial version to make the trigger heavier and less likely for a A.D. the .40 is a snappy round, and the m&p40 has one of the shortest restricted length factory barrels you can get in canada coming in at 108mm where prohib is under 105mm. glock 22 which was among the first accepted polymer frame in canada for duty carry is 117mm, sig p226 comes in at 112 but with a much heavier frame which use to be the carry pistol of choice for opp. the heavier frame reduces the pop and gives you a better chance of a proper sight picture for follow up shots.

i also use a m&p40, i have a few gripes with it not having as much texture as i like and im not a fan of the trigger shape but with practice you can get use to it, but ill never use it in a competition.
 
EaZ8 said:
i believe police are trained to shoot at 25 yrds but to pass the annual (i think its annual, it may be every 3 yrs) test it is 7 yrds, full mag on the paper on target..which really, isnt that hard.

another thing is a lot of cops are opting for the shorter barrel plastic guns like glock 22 or 23 and smith and wesson m&p40 just because of the carry weight. really most cops here will never do anything more than unbuckle their holster pouch when approaching a swerving car, ive heard of gun smiths pulling the corners of ketchup packets out of the older sig p226's when they use to carry those.

the problem with the plastic guns is the .40sw they are using is very snappy and hard to shoot, add in the light frames, crappy OEM triggers, the add the duty carry heavy spring kits they have to have in there and it makes shooting follow up shots very difficult for those who dont regularly train with their carry weapon. and the further their target is the wider their shooting group gets.
they need to think about switching to 9mm (maybe even +p) rounds like the mil did.
Click to expand...

Training and familiarity with the Firearm is really the Key here. I find it to be a very balanced sidearm. YMMV. /End
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom