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- Thread starter Twotons
- Start date
XenoVibe
Well-known member
Yes, street tires are good enough for a track day and honestly you are there as a novice so its not like you're going to be trying to overtake in turns and drag your knee at every corner for the perfect lap time right? Just be sure to break in the tires before hand so there's no issue with chicken strips causing you to low side when you lean heavily into a turn.
Also, since you're buying used, check the date on the tires.. you don't want to be running a set around 4 years old.
Also, since you're buying used, check the date on the tires.. you don't want to be running a set around 4 years old.
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Pilot Power 3, Dunlop Q2, Bridgestone S20 are plenty good enough to get going. The usual issue with street sport tires is that when ridden hard, they can overheat late in a session. By the time you are fast enough to have that happen, you'll know it. It is possible to do lap times of a few percent off lap-record on whatever your bike is, on sport-touring tires. Whether the rider can, is another matter!
FYI I won the 2012 SOAR Nov Open championship, I was 2nd overall in SOAR Nov Superbike and 4th overall in RACE AM Superbike (only did 3 rounds with RACE in 2012) using 4 year old front tires.
Required air pressure on track is always lower than for the road. The pressure recommendations for road tires always have tire lifetime as one of the important factors when setting the pressure. On track, that goes down the priority list ...
There is a trade-off between achieving sufficient temperature for the tire compound to work, and having the deflection of the tire in response to applied load to be in a suitable range. The tire is part of the suspension and has to absorb a bit of the pavement irregularities and it also has to deform just enough to "plant" the contact patch into the pavement. Too soft and the steering goes all vague and heavy and squishy. Too hard and the contact patch won't be properly planted in the pavement. So the pressure when the tire is hot has to be in a certain range. Race tire pressures nowadays are always specified (and checked) when hot.
Road tires and their normal pressure recommendations are designed to have the tire profile stiffness to be in a correct range without requiring the tire to be worked hard (and running hot) in the way that you would see on track. Run that pressure when riding aggressively on track, working the tire more and raising its temperature, and the pressure will go up too high, making the tire profile stiffer. So you have to lower the pressure to allow the tire to deform as it is supposed to when it contacts the road. That raises its operating temperature. But the compound on a road / touring tire is designed to work best at only moderate temperatures. Go above that range and they can go "greasy".
Beginner or green-group riders generally won't be riding hard enough to send the tire temperature out of range. So you drop the pressure a little so that the profile stiffness is in a suitable range when the tire heats up, and since you are not really riding all that hard (compared to pro level roadracing, say), the temperature of the tire won't really be *that* far out of range for it to be a problem. At that level of riding, sport-touring or moderate-level sport tires are a good choice.
On track, you take note of how the tire feels, and when you come in after a session, you check tire temperature and pressure. If all is well, keep going. If something starts going out of range or not feeling right, then it's time to do something about it, be it tire pressure or suspension changes or tire changes or whatever.
Great advice above, especially the advice that you should stick to performance street tires if you are not going to use warmers. Too hard to get DOTs up to temperature. With street tires you just do one or two laps at 75% or so and then you are good to go.
I'll put in a plug for the Q2s (if you can find them, Q3s otherwise). I started to really get my times down this season (third track season) and am approaching respectable novice race pace. The Q2s lasted all season (9 track days) and were probably only starting to go off just a bit on the last day or day and a half. I wasn't using warmers and they never gave me the slightest cause for concern. Pretty hard to beat that.
When you are just starting out you have more important things to worry about than futzing about with tire warmers. A high end performance street tire is going to be more than enough, unless you turn out to be a real prodigy! You can definitely make due with street tires until you are ready for expert group.
I'll put in a plug for the Q2s (if you can find them, Q3s otherwise). I started to really get my times down this season (third track season) and am approaching respectable novice race pace. The Q2s lasted all season (9 track days) and were probably only starting to go off just a bit on the last day or day and a half. I wasn't using warmers and they never gave me the slightest cause for concern. Pretty hard to beat that.
When you are just starting out you have more important things to worry about than futzing about with tire warmers. A high end performance street tire is going to be more than enough, unless you turn out to be a real prodigy! You can definitely make due with street tires until you are ready for expert group.
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I get about 3 or 4 weekends out of a set of slicks on my FZR400 at a race pace on that bike when the rear shock is not bottoming. (600s and litre bikes are exponentially harder on tires.)
When the rear shock is bottoming in the carousel at Grand Bend, which I had issues with this year when the weather co-operated and the bike was not having mechanical or electrical problems (had a tough year), it will wreck a rear tire in one race at race pace ... (I've since installed a stiffer spring but conditions didn't co-operate in the last two rounds to properly test it)
When the rear shock is bottoming in the carousel at Grand Bend, which I had issues with this year when the weather co-operated and the bike was not having mechanical or electrical problems (had a tough year), it will wreck a rear tire in one race at race pace ... (I've since installed a stiffer spring but conditions didn't co-operate in the last two rounds to properly test it)
FriendlyFoe
Well-known member
The analogy that i use to explain the difference between street and race tires is the way they speak to you. Where street tires will yell and scream when they are not happy, race tires will whisper quietly right before they high side ya to the moon.
If you are 20 seconds off a respectable lap time it doesn't matter what tire you're on because most of what you need to work on is going fast while the bike is straight up and down. Beyond that i had a very good experience on a set of BT003 RS. Both bridgestone and pirelli make a track day tire specifically for what you're talking about. They have the profile of a race tire, but a compound that will come up to temperature easily and slide very predictably with tons of feedback. Also likely to give you 6-8 days out of a set of tires.
Then there is race tires. On a set of warmers will give you a level of edge grip that you wont get out of any lesser tire. They also give little to no feedback unless you're riding them hard enough to be sliding in and out of corners.
FriendlyFoe
Well-known member
That makes perfect sense in my mind. If you run around on a race tire at 3/4 pace when you do crash it will likely be with no warning. Race tires only really give predictable feedback when they're being ridden near the limit.
We run endurance racing at approximately 75% of race lap pace and the tires give predictable feedback. Also can not generalize all tires and brands under the "Slick" umbrella, different slicks feel and react differently etc.. I am sure I don't need to explain that... but anyways, go on
FriendlyFoe
Well-known member
The limit being hard enough to make them slide. Jordan Szoke kicks your *** on the brakes, that has nothing to do with tires
ZX the point is more so that race tires are far less vocal about the feedback they give, and even more so when being ridden under the pace they're designed for. I know when i first started playing around with a race tire but wasn't fast or skilled enough for them i couldn't really tell what the bike was doing under me, as compared to a track day tire which set off church bells when it was going to start to slide. Maybe it's more accurate to say the harder you push a race tire the better feedback it gives, so if you're not at that point stick to a track day tire.
The limit being hard enough to make them slide. Jordan Szoke kicks your *** on the brakes, that has nothing to do with tires
ZX the point is more so that race tires are far less vocal about the feedback they give, and even more so when being ridden under the pace they're designed for. I know when i first started playing around with a race tire but wasn't fast or skilled enough for them i couldn't really tell what the bike was doing under me, as compared to a track day tire which set off church bells when it was going to start to slide. Maybe it's more accurate to say the harder you push a race tire the better feedback it gives, so if you're not at that point stick to a track day tire.
This is so very wrong, the rest is just wrong. Maybe it's just your inability to feel what the tire is telling you?
OP, start with a hyper sport tire, you'll get more life out of them and they'll work better without warmers.
Why do people that don't know insist on posting.
Cuz its GTAM bro!
