Guelph - Motorcycle noise by-law coming.

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Nah actually most of my "uncles" from back in those days are mellow old guys now...they mostly look and act like your grandfather probably would.

I realize we aren't at odd's, you are talking about the current weekend warriors of Thorold. You can insult those guys all you want...they go buy a Harley off the showroom floor, get the shop mechanic to throw on some ridiculously loud shorty's and generally don't know what end of a wrench to use. You are right, f*ck those guys.
 
I live in Guelph and the only problem I have with this law is that it's limited to MC's only...that part is horse$#!T. To get this ticket your bike has to be not loud, but effin idiot loud. As for the whole loud pipes save lives, the moron that has been saved twice by revving his engine should look at the button near his left thumb...it's there for just that reason.
 
Fair enough lol.

BTW I'm not someone that is into the old-school style, but that CB750 you have/had is a friggin tank. Nice job.. you clearly know your ****.

Cheers.
 
I recomend that the moron who has been saved twice should just learn how to ride so he/she is not in that perdicament.


And yes I agree, they should target any vehicle, not just motorcycles, what about the three legged vehicles.....

Renboy said:
I live in Guelph and the only problem I have with this law is that it's limited to MC's only...that part is horse$#!T. To get this ticket your bike has to be not loud, but effin idiot loud. As for the whole loud pipes save lives, the moron that has been saved twice by revving his engine should look at the button near his left thumb...it's there for just that reason.
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Spiider said:
@Renboy, I agree...the city busses are twice as loud as my bike. I checked my bike with an iPhone app that measures dB and it barely passes.

@e90, thanks!
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I'm pretty sure your iPhone, with its tiny external microphone (the one on top), is not a credible way to measure dB levels.
 
The entire thing is moot anyway. I'm not pulling over for a bylaw officer, they simply do not have the right to legally pull you over.
You can choose to comply with their order to pull over if you want a ticket, I choose no to.

They have created an unenforceable bylaw....good luck with that.
 
I have tested 3 phone apps on my phone with a $1,000 dB meter.
It was almost exactly the same.



jeero said:
I'm pretty sure your iPhone, with its tiny external microphone (the one on top), is not a credible way to measure dB levels.
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The dB meter on an iPhone might not be a recognized measuring instrument in court ... but it's plenty good enough to use on your own bike to establish whether you have a problem or not.
 
It is not unenforceable if a memeber of the Guelph police requests you to pull over, they have the authority to enforce all of Guelph's by-laws,


Spiider said:
The entire thing is moot anyway. I'm not pulling over for a bylaw officer, they simply do not have the right to legally pull you over.
You can choose to comply with their order to pull over if you want a ticket, I choose no to.

They have created an unenforceable bylaw....good luck with that.
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It is very close to an expensive unit Brian. You would be surprised how close.
It varies on very loud bikes that are way over 110 dB. But in the legal levels it is dead on.
The way I see it, once you see a reading over 99, you will fail and the iPhone meter is a bit off.



Brian P said:
The dB meter on an iPhone might not be a recognized measuring instrument in court ... but it's plenty good enough to use on your own bike to establish whether you have a problem or not.
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gwelfmike said:
It is not unenforceable if a memeber of the Guelph police requests you to pull over, they have the authority to enforce all of Guelph's by-laws,
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That's true of course, I have respect for the police here...several higher up's are friends/acquaintances.
I just can't see them bothering with this unless there is a political push to have a "zero tolerance week" or something like that.


I used the iPhone app to give me an idea if I would have a problem, not for future evidence....it says I'm just inside the limits so I have no reason to believe I'll have an issue or that I am breaking the noise bylaw. What I do have an issue with is some fatso bylaw officer flashing me his orange lights and trying to wave me over because he believes in his judgement I may be too loud.

I also wonder how they intend to get you to perform for them...what if you refuse to run your bike for the test? or refuse to hold rpms at 3000 for the prescribed period of time? Nothing in the law says that I have to demonstrate anything at their request, just that the bike has to fail the test to get a ticket.

If you refuse...what can they do? Give you the ticket anyway?
Refuse to let you go? You aren't under arrest, there is no criminal aspect to this.
Bylaw cannot restrict your freedom of movement unless they are making a citizens arrest.
My lawyer would sh*t in their cornflakes over that one.

What a weird set of circumstances they have created...but I'm not surprised given the collective intelligence of our city council.
 
I am not sure what "officer you are referring to when you say "if you refuse... what can they do"

If a police officer pulls you over, for lets say, not having brake lights, and the officer asks you to put your foot on the brake pedal so the officer can check if your tail lights are working, are you going to refuse?


Yes, you do not have to co operate with the by-law enforcement officer, but if Officer Friendly from the local constabulary is asking you, then what? And if you get cocky with Officer Friendly, I hope your licence, insurance and ownership are in order.


Also, I see this is a stepping stone, much like smoking regulations that were once enforced by the muniicplaity being taken over province wide.


Also, By-law Enforcement officers cannot make citizens arrests. The only time they can is under Treaspass to Property Act, which I have seen in writen in some municipalities in the Parks By-law, but never used.

rue of course, I have respect for the police here...several higher up's are friends/acquaintances.
I just can't see them bothering with this unless there is a political push to have a "zero tolerance week" or something like that.


I used the iPhone app to give me an idea if I would have a problem, not for future evidence....it says I'm just inside the limits so I have no reason to believe I'll have an issue or that I am breaking the noise bylaw. What I do have an issue with is some fatso bylaw officer flashing me his orange lights and trying to wave me over because he believes in his judgement I may be too loud.

I also wonder how they intend to get you to perform for them...what if you refuse to run your bike for the test? or refuse to hold rpms at 3000 for the prescribed period of time? Nothing in the law says that I have to demonstrate anything at their request, just that the bike has to fail the test to get a ticket.

If you refuse...what can they do? Give you the ticket anyway?
Refuse to let you go? You aren't under arrest, there is no criminal aspect to this.
Bylaw cannot restrict your freedom of movement unless they are making a citizens arrest.
My lawyer would sh*t in their cornflakes over that one.

What a weird set of circumstances they have created...but I'm not surprised given the collective intelligence of our city council.[/QUOTE]
 
Low rider said:
It is very close to an expensive unit Brian. You would be surprised how close.
It varies on very loud bikes that are way over 110 dB. But in the legal levels it is dead on.
The way I see it, once you see a reading over 99, you will fail and the iPhone meter is a bit off.
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The app on my phone (iPhone 4 w Otterbox Defender) is off by a lot (~10 dB high at 40dBA, completely useless over 100 dBA as it basically stops increasing with sound level). I haven't tested it at levels in between, but if it's off at the bottom and the top, I don't trust the middle. I know other people have had better luck, so I don't know if it is my phone or the case causing problems.

If people really care, I can bring out a calibrated meter and see what we get, that's what we did with Brian P's bikes. Based on those tests, the tests conducted by the vintage bike guys and the tests the cops did in Mississauga (or was it Oakville?), as Brian has stated, this isn't a battle worth fighting. Unless you are actively trying to be an ***, you will pass and they aren't even likely to bother enforcing this law.

As for that Harley guy saying revving his bike saved him, why didn't he just use his horn like everybody else? Why does his bike need to be ear-bleeding long 100% of the time for the 0.01% of the time he needs it loud for safety? Such a stupid argument.

I agree that this should be for everyone, not just bikes, but as long as they don't mess with the SAE standard, it is an entirely reasonable test that everyone should easily pass, it is basically an almost useless law to make people feel better about doing something.

City busses get lots of complaints in some areas. They are loud, discharge sound out the top (towards condo windows), run a high throttle a lot of the time and run much of the night. As with most other governmental agencies, they is no political will to touch this problem. If someone brings forward a law that creates money, politicians are all over it, if someone wants to create a law that will cost huge taxpayer dollars to fix, it is DOA.
 
@Gwelfmike, I was referring to Bylaw.

Although the question is interesting from a legal one about our requirement to "demonstrate" something. Last time I checked no one could make me do anything I don't want to do. If they aren't willing to arrest me and then operate my bike themselves...they are going to have a tough time enforcing something like this Police or not. What if you refuse? Do they just give you the ticket anyway and we fight it in court? (Good, maybe a legal precedent would be set.)

And my licence, reg, and insurance, safety items are all perfect...I'm not a 20 year old kid pushing the boundaries anymore.
This of course only applies to the police, not bylaw because what can they ask you to produce...nothing.

Police don't pull you over to check your brake lights, they pull you over because they can see they weren't working beforehand.
They don't waste their time or yours on trivial things. If they pull you over for something like that it is for your own safety.
I've never had a problem with the Guelph Police. We have one of the best Police forces in the country here.

By-Law, I fecking can't stand. Whereas the Police are laid back and respectable guys/gals...the Bylaw officers are the exact opposite.
Every interaction I've had with them has been ego driven, power hungry and basically ended in a stalemate.

I can't even describe the last interaction I had with Guelph Bylaw, it would take a small novel and it didn't end "Happily Ever After...". "It ended with them taking back their ticket and walking backwards off my property to their car.
 
Once or twice a summer they (the police) will get a request from above (they are city employees) to run a safety blitz since the compliant bin is filling up. They may never issue a ticket but if it keeps Johnny straight pipes out of the subdivisions then the bylaw is working.
If somebody thinks putting screaming eagle pipes on the bike is a bad investment then the bylaw is working.

Problem with bylaws is ANY joe blow can phone town hall and report you and give your home address to the bylaw office. Then some fellow has to follow up and come to your house and ask about your bike. Its like a barking dog issue. You can tell him to pissoff, but the file has been started and when the report goes up stairs saying Xhundred of complaints called in, the police have to start testing. Its a circle.
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