CB500 Prices are out

[ItIsWhatItIs]

Forum Sponsor

Honda's product strategy is to make their bikes successful globally. They did that with the CBR250R by marketing it as, and I'm paraphrasing, "a quarter litre for the world". The CBR500 is a natural step up from the CBR250R. In countries with tiered licensing requirements such as in the EU, the CBR500 meets restrictions on horsepower and power-to-weight ratio for the A2 category. The 47 bhp is right at the limit of allowable in the A2 tier. The highest level is the A, that's where your supersports would fit in.

In North America, we're often guilty of only looking at the horsepower and torque figures and thinking more is better. If we don't see numbers that wet our appetite then we dismiss the bike on paper. The Honda 500 will sell in large volumes globally. If you want a 500 that makes 60hp, there's a bike for you; it's called the Ninja 500. It was designed in an era where tiered licensing and emission rules wasn't as strict and under a different global economy where fuel efficiency wasn't as a primary concern for buyers.

Adding fuel injection does not automatically increase horsepower on its own. It depends on other criteria of the setup such as mapping. The ECU and FI on a bike like the CBR500 will be tuned to strike a balance between power and fuel economy as well as make it compliant with emission rules.

There are bikes made by honda for other markets that Honda Canada could bring in. We are not Europe and we don't need bikes reflecting their restrictions. Insurance in ontario is based on cc not hp. If Honda wants to shoot themselves in the foot with their product offerings based on these imaginary restrictions I forecast kawasaki will swoop in with an fi ninja 500 for 2014 producing 60 hp. Honda has to be preemptive and do some housecleaning and toss some people to the unemployment line before this forecast comes reality. The ninja 300 is going to lay a beating on the cbr250. If someone does buy a cbr250 going forward it will be because of price.

I recently drove to florida, like port dover, daytona beach is a huge bike destination. It would be cool to ride down. There is no way I could ride down on my cbr125 without considering interstate alternatives. Traffic is clipping along at 80 to 90 mph, 130 to 140 kph on average all the way down. The cbr250 would be pressed to keep that pace. The ninja 300 tops out at 110 mph, 180 kph. Those specs will easily provide the required performance to keep pace with interstate traffic with power left on tap. On the interstates you don't see compact cars really, lots of camrys, fusions, suv, mostly mid size cars. I doubt the American Market will be keen on bikes from manufactures who short change the performance. The ninja 300 will definately be a hit on the interstates and I know if I were riding on the interstate with one, I would be smiling.

However, bike insurance in the US is not like ontario, because of this the cb500 could have an audience, that is up until kawasaki comes out with their revamped 500.

 

[honduhmatic]

I think spec wars miss the point of this market segment. The 500 is targeted for new riders hoping to have enough go-juice for 400-series highways. Sure, you could do the same with a Ninja 300 by wringing its' neck as well. This isn't the 600cc supersport class where people actually care about hp figures.

Honda's sold their 45-50 hp 750 Honda Shadow successfully for years and it does about the same thing.

Is Kawasaki developing a new 500? They released the 400 not that long ago and revamped the 650 this year or last...

 

[Boom King]

Kawasaki had the EX500, which effectively got replaced by the 650. They could reintroduce a 500 but not only would it compete against Honda's 500 but also their own 650.

Honda could take a segmentation strategy for each market but as pointed out by the CBR250R, they're taking a more mass global strategy in part to keep costs down and make these bikes competitive on price. The CBR250R was a huge seller in markets where it was quite cheaper than the Ninja 250R even though the Ninja had the power advantage. The CBR500 will share certain production components with the CBR250. The CBR500 has lower power numbers than the Ninja 650 but it's also $2000 cheaper. That's the product strategy. You want more power, then go pay for it. Honda isn't trying to win a war on horsepower here.

Kawasaki's product strategy will appeal more to people who like to stare at power figures on paper. Their response to Honda's CBR250? Add 50cc more to the Ninja 250. Or add 36cc more to the ZX6R. That's the good thing about more competition in the market. Different choices for everyone.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

I think spec wars miss the point of this market segment. The 500 is targeted for new riders hoping to have enough go-juice for 400-series highways. Sure, you could do the same with a Ninja 300 by wringing its' neck as well. This isn't the 600cc supersport class where people actually care about hp figures.

Honda's sold their 45-50 hp 750 Honda Shadow successfully for years and it does about the same thing.

Is Kawasaki developing a new 500? They released the 400 not that long ago and revamped the 650 this year or last...

It's about being up for the job. For the 400 series highways an FI cbr150 @ 18 hp with it's weight of 280 lb would be adequate to clip along at the 120 kph mark for most riders. With the racing charge of 50 over, why tempt yourself with wasted performance. No 150 available, the next stop is the cbr250 or the ninja 300. As I posted the cbr250 will be pressed to keep pace on the interstates. The ninja 300 will clip along. Extra weight and unused power is a waste. The cbr250 is fine for ontario, not up to the job south of the border.

The us site for kawasaki states 68 mpg for the ninja 300. All round this bike is measuring up.

 

[Macs]

I think Kawi's business model is fine. it would be stupid to do a 300, 500 and 650. The 650 is popular, and the 300 is turning out to be an excellent bike that will compete well with 250s for market share. Their 400 didn't sell well at all. The only reason to change would be if the CB500 starts taking away their 650 market share. Then maybe a drop to 500 and a higher CC offering would be in the works. 300, 500, 750? Their 1000 isn't going anywhere

 

[honduhmatic]

It's about being up for the job. For the 400 series highways an FI cbr150 @ 18 hp with it's weight of 280 lb would be adequate to clip along at the 120 kph mark for most riders. With the racing charge of 50 over, why tempt yourself with wasted performance. No 150 available, the next stop is the cbr250 or the ninja 300. As I posted the cbr250 will be pressed to keep pace on the interstates. The ninja 300 will clip along. Extra weight and unused power is a waste. The cbr250 is fine for ontario, not up to the job south of the border.

The us site for kawasaki states 68 mpg for the ninja 300. All round this bike is measuring up.

I think pretty much any bike is capable of doing interstates and 400-series highways, but I could imagine it's an easier, more comfortable and less-stressful task on a bike with a bit of reserve power.

I went from a 600-4 to an 800-4 this season. Of course the bigger bike is quicker (108hp vs. 80), but and the biggest difference I notice is the torque and power at the lower end of the rev range. I haven't ridden the CB500 or the Ninja 300, but I'd imagine the 500 revs lower and has more torque at the lower end.

Anyways, I'm just speaking out of interest here. I hope both bikes do well since there's a growing market of new riders. The review I read of the Ninja 300 was very positive and the CB500 looks good too. I do think Honda has an ace up their sleeve by offering a naked, a 'sport' model and an 'adventure' model of the same bike. Paint colors and appearance will always sell bikes to some.

Also, I know insurance is affected by cc but (depending on rider age), the difference is pretty nominal between 300, 500 and 650 IMO. The 650 would cost, what, an extra $200/yr? Especially if you're an experienced rider and over 30, I can't imagine getting a smaller bike just for the insurance break. I guess it depends on convictions/record, and why you're into the sport.

 

[Boom King]

It's about being up for the job

Exactly, and it depends on the type of job. Anyone looking to do long distance touring or everyday highway commuting is not going to look primarily at a small displacement bike. The CBR250R is not intended to be a long distance tourer; it's more of an urban commuter and for back country twisties.

As I posted the cbr250 will be pressed to keep pace on the interstates. The ninja 300 will clip along. Extra weight and unused power is a waste. The cbr250 is fine for ontario, not up to the job south of the border.

I'm wondering if you've actually ridden a CBR250R on the highways. General consensus from actual owners over at dedicated CBR250 forums is that the bike does fine cruising along at 75-80 mph on most of the US interstates for a single rider of average size. It might run into problems in Texas where they cruise at 80 - 85 mph. Sure, they concede there are better choices out there if what you do is primarily highway commuting as more power the better for this application. The Ninja 300 will of course do better on the highway but like I said earlier, you pay more for that power increase. It depends on what you want out of your bike.

 

[mimico_polak]

The CBR250R has no issues on the highway at all. I don't tuck typically and I can cruise at 130 indicated (10% high vs actual) and when I tuck that jumps up to 145-150 indicated very easily. Highway 2-up is also fine but there's obviously a better bike for that on a regular basis.
The bike does everything well. And is cheap to keep and maintain. A lot of the guys on the dedicated forum do large miles and a lot of 2-up on it as well.

In the end each of us is looking for something else in a bike and no bike will meet every need perfectly. I need a garage and more $ so I can have a stable of bikes! LoL

 

[eljay]

I can second the highway on the cbr250. I'm 180ish and no problems ever on the highway (except when you try to keep up with your SS friends). Way over speed limit and faster than traffic was easy, any time any place. I know some people who weigh a lot more than me and never had any issue on the highway either. I've met some people who thought taking it over 6k rpm was bad for the bike and thought that it had speed issues. If you are good with running 9k rpm or over for hours on end, speed will not be an issue. High rpm for prolonged periods is no big deal with this thing. Just don't downshift lol. That's another can of worms.

 

[dirtbag]

For about 2000$ less you could buy my mint 2006 FZ6
-super reliable fuel injected inline 4
-60mpg with over 300km to a tank
-cheap insurance (380$ a season with Primmum - no fire , theft or collision)
-cruise for hours at 150kph + (if you didn't mind risking your license)
-36000k, brand new rear tire, good front tire (BS Battleax's) good chain & sprocket
-etc etc

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

For about 2000$ less you could buy my mint 2006 FZ6
-super reliable fuel injected inline 4
-60mpg with over 300km to a tank
-cheap insurance (380$ a season with Primmum - no fire , theft or collision)
-cruise for hours at 150kph + (if you didn't mind risking your license)
-36000k, brand new rear tire, good front tire (BS Battleax's) good chain & sprocket
-etc etc

http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/yamaha/fz6

nice bike @ 49 us mpg. I only buy new and ride my bikes until I acheive my usage targets. I have exceeded my usage target on my bike and I will continue riding my bike next year until I sell it. By the time it sells it will have 60 000 km plus.

Anyone with thoughts on what a functioning 08 cbr125 with 60 000 km plus is worth?

 

[mimico_polak]

http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/yamaha/fz6

nice bike @ 49 us mpg. I only buy new and ride my bikes until I acheive my usage targets. I have exceeded my usage target on my bike and I will continue riding my bike next year until I sell it. By the time it sells it will have 60 000 km plus.

Anyone with thoughts on what a functioning 08 cbr125 with 60 000 km plus is worth?

Wow good on you for that mileage on the 125. As for price, no matter what you put it up for people will low ball you large because of the mileage. When you see the majority of 125s with less than 5/7k you can imagine yours will stand out.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

Wow good on you for that mileage on the 125. As for price, no matter what you put it up for people will low ball you large because of the mileage. When you see the majority of 125s with less than 5/7k you can imagine yours will stand out.

I know I am getting my money's worth out of it, the bike is still going. As long it's working, the push to buy another bike is not truly there unless I sell for the right price I am prepared to keep riding it until I hit 70000 km. That will be the point when my rear tire is shot and my current chain will have 20 000km on it. This means I will be buying next July or August, which is ok with me. Who knows maybe more exciting bikes will come to Canada by that point.

 

[Emerald94]

Not the same bike at all.

http://www.visordown.com/reviews/motorcycles/naked/honda-cbf500-2004---2009/119.html

56 bhp, adding fi increases the hp of a bike. I really don't get honda's product strategy.

 

[unL33T]

It isn't just new to me, it is new as in 0 km's on the odometer. A dealership in Montreal was blowing out stock, they had 3 of them (and yes they went quickly).

I know comparing apples and oranges, but the comment was made you can't get a 650 for the price of a 500, I just demonstrated you can.

As for how I like the bike, 1000 km's in 2 weeks and I love it more each ride. Way more nimble than my Tiger 955i and far more soul than my V-Strom.

And it was a 2012/2013 model? When I bought my 2009 650R new in the dealership they had several 2008's they were clearing out for $2000 less. That still doesn't mean I'd be comparing the price of the 2008 model to the 2009 models from other manufacturers.

I don't think hp is the only consideration here. The CBR250 scored pretty much a dead heat in comparison tests with the Ninja 250 (the old model, I know) despite being a single with 5-10 less hp. The 250 apparently had a lot more 'meat under the curve' and was less peaky.

Off topic but I've heard this is the reason why the Ducati 696 actually loses to the lowly 650R in a lot of comparison reviews. The reviews I've read between the two always say get the Ducati to say you've got a Ducati but if you want the better bike with better value, get the 650R (surprised the crap outta me when I started looking it up).

It's about being up for the job. For the 400 series highways an FI cbr150 @ 18 hp with it's weight of 280 lb would be adequate to clip along at the 120 kph mark for most riders. With the racing charge of 50 over, why tempt yourself with wasted performance. No 150 available, the next stop is the cbr250 or the ninja 300. As I posted the cbr250 will be pressed to keep pace on the interstates. The ninja 300 will clip along. Extra weight and unused power is a waste.

And that's why I'm looking to "downgrade". Even the relatively low HP of my 650R is still way more than I ever need if I want to keep my license. In the city I take off from a light and by the time I'm in second I look down and I'm already doing over 75+ in a 50 and have to slow down. I guess it's a little different on the highway but still a waste.

 

[ItIsWhatItIs]

And that's why I'm looking to "downgrade". Even the relatively low HP of my 650R is still way more than I ever need if I want to keep my license. In the city I take off from a light and by the time I'm in second I look down and I'm already doing over 75+ in a 50 and have to slow down. I guess it's a little different on the highway but still a waste.

The pig with lip stick conundrum. A fairing bike gives the allusion to the public of performance. When I bought my bike it was for recreation to get me to the beach for a swim or wherever for little gas money. The bike has proven so reliable that I use it as transportation. Honda does make a cbr150 and Honda Canada refuses to listen to the market which wants this bike offered to Canada. This bike weighs 280 lbs @ 18hps and will clip along at 120 all day long for most riders; all the while acheiving 80 to 100 mpg. Instead Honda Canada brings in the cbr250 @ 24 hp weighing 370 lbs. The cbr250 will be a dog compared to the ninja 300. It is clear with the cbr250 and the cb500 honda is purposely detuning their bikes hp output. Honda better rethink their strategy with regards to Canada. We are not Europe. We don't need their treatment. The ninja 300 @ 39 hp weighing 380 lbs boasts 68 mpg. A bike with these specs has touring ability. I would like to ride to Florida one day and this bike will have me clipping along no problem. If Honda wants to move the cb500 in ontario they better do a sales job on the insurers to get the insurance quotes downs as insurance is based on cc's. I want performance and to save money.

 

[MacDoc]

We have a tiny market - barely a blip on Honda's radar with our short riding season. We get the left overs. Honda could care less.

That said I think they are on target with the 500 series tho many of the choices are geared to the beginning rider in EU and even Australia.
I think they were wrong headed on the low revving 700 series but bang on with this set.

Price and upright seating position, relatively low weight but enough power for the highway. There will be a ton of farkles come for them and Honda will make up their margin selling top boxes etc.

I think you are correct on insurance and I'd suggest anyone looking try a TD quote as they are aggressive in getting bike business.

 

[TiburonJA]

Passed by Ready Powersports, went inside to inquire and they ended giving me $7817.03 OTDP. I obviously didn't haggle since I have no intention of buying it this second. They told me they have a ton of deposites already and supplies are very limited, so I wouldn't expect a huge drop in price after a little negotiating but it's always worth a shot.

Made up my mind after everything he told me and I'm def going to try and get this bike in the spring. Time to work my *** off for some extra cash.

 

[MacDoc]

Which model are you getting?

 

[TiburonJA]

The black CBR500R

Forum Sponsor