Cornering situation

[Outlaws Justice]

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Yup, it takes time and confidence, which is also why BusaBob's advice is important. The faster you go, the more likely it is that you turn in early. This is amplified when you're on an unfamiliar road. The more early you turn, the wider you go on the exit. If the turn also happens to tighten up, then you're likely to eat guardrail.

Very True, and we both explain and teach the late turn in point technique, but even then to actually get people to master it requires focus on it in every turn until it becomes second nature in your riding. And you are right, the faster you ride, the more important it becomes! It helps you to leave room for many of the un-expecteds. Along with the proper turn in point is vision, without good vision, (looking all the way through the turn) nothing else you do on the bike works anyway!

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Very True, and we both explain and teach the late turn in point technique, but even then to actually get people to master it requires focus on it in every turn until it becomes second nature in your riding. And you are right, the faster you ride, the more important it becomes! It helps you to leave room for many of the un-expecteds. Along with the proper turn in point is vision, without good vision, (looking all the way through the turn) nothing else you do on the bike works anyway!

I generally explain it by saying, "Wait until you see God, then wait two heartbeats before you turn."

 

[murf]

I think he means while actually making the approach, perhaps with some lean angle involved, bobbing and weaving the back. Perhaps even the reason why slipper clutches are becoming so standard and engine braking electronics are now entering into the fray, thus allowing engine braking to be mitigated and down gearing possible even into the trail braking stage of turning. Without a slipper clutch and EB electronics, settling the bike is a priority before throwing it in and letting trail braking scrub off a little more speed, having already slashed off the chunk of the straight away speed while pretty much entirely upright.

How does one approach a corner without engine braking exactly? (without slipper clutches and electronics)
Approaching a corner can mean many things......past the turn in point, approaching the apex etc etc

 

[murf]

I upshift on entry and downshift on corner exit!!

 

[mmmnaked]

I hope the guy just didn't know how to articulate his argument.... but it sure does sound like he watches track videos a lot more than he actually rides it

 

[awyala]

How does one approach a corner without engine braking exactly? (without slipper clutches and electronics)
Approaching a corner can mean many things......past the turn in point, approaching the apex etc etc

Hence why I suspect he is referring to the pre-tip in point.

 

[mmmnaked]

:lol: pre-tip in point... that's the technical term right?

 

[awyala]

From someone who always rev matched to down shift on the road, I love the slipper on my Gsxr track bike (yep it's stock and works quite well). They aren't necessary but they come in hand once your pace increases. They aren't "marketing hype". The 600rr (Honda) is the last 600 to give you a slipper from the factory (is it standard now?)and when your prepping a bike for the track (where 600 ss are suppost to be) its an additional $700-$1000 added to the bill (if your slow enough to need/want it )

I went from an SV650S to the first production slipper clutch on the 2005 ZX6R, and it was no gimmick! Damn near a revelation. Though I can't say I tracked either bike, but I used to bob and bounce that SV back wheel into all my stops (mostly for entertainment - it was so damn fun). Rev matching wasn't a problem, but it was done 1 gear at a time (in quick succession). But I also loved extreme hard braking and having the back squirmy.

With the new (at the time) slipper clutch it would literally take a massive drop in say 5000rpm (possible 3 gear differential) to unsettle the rear for even a brief moment.

By the time I was tracking my bikes I was on a ZX10R with a slipper as standard, and though I rev match, there were times in a panic when I just mash down the gears, get a little wiggle and bam, right on track for the corner. It comes in handy.

It is a trickle down technology from the big boy racers, and it has it's advantages.

Deep down I miss anchor toss that was the V-Twin engine braking / non slipper clutch that was the SV650S and pine for it. Not so much to say an 1198 would be effective on the track, but enough to really enjoy the Panigale for instance.

Engine Braking Controls can smooth out entry in addition to the slipper clutch (in race mode), or with that monster back torque you can still get the rear squirmy with a single gear downshift and no EBC, with a mild rev differential.

I would say that is no gimmick. That being said, the RC8R has none of that and gets decent lap times....but then again, that engine is mechanically tuned to be quite mild and smooth.

On the race track, the slipper probably has its fans and haters, but on the road the slipper is truly a safety feature that's worth having.

Ok back to turning techniques.....

 

[reciprocity]

the 2005 ZX6R was not the first production slipper clutch on a streetbike.

Kawi has had them since the late 80's(89 to be exact) on the ZX7.

The first production 600 to have one was the 2003 ZX6RR.

 

[awyala]

the 2005 ZX6R was not the first production slipper clutch on a streetbike.

Kawi has had them since the late 80's(89 to be exact) on the ZX7.

The first production 600 to have one was the 2003 ZX6RR.

Pardon my error. I do recall however that was the brochure sales pitch when I bought it. But it looks like I stand corrected.

 

[FriendlyFoe]

How does one approach a corner without engine braking exactly? (without slipper clutches and electronics)
Approaching a corner can mean many things......past the turn in point, approaching the apex etc etc

With the throttle cracked open, apparently thats what the electronics do. I'd heard of GP level racers talking about that technique years ago but never understood the why.

The first production 600 to have one was the 2003 ZX6RR.

You sure? I've been told by people before that 05 was the first year and a bunch of random links/forum posts on a google search all say the same thing.

 

[reciprocity]

You sure? I've been told by people before that 05 was the first year and a bunch of random links/forum posts on a google search all say the same thing.

ABSOPOSITIVELY,,

I raced an 03, in 03, came with one right outta the showroom


http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0308_kawasaki_zx_6rr/index.html

The 6RR's gearbox sports the other big difference between it and its 636cc brother. Although the transmission ratios are identical to the 6R (more closely spaced ratios from third through sixth gear compared to the old 6R), the 6RR has the added benefit of a ramp-type slipper clutch, a first on a production 600

Read more: http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0308_kawasaki_zx_6rr/index.html#ixzz1zC46z9Jn​

 

[awyala]

ABSOPOSITIVELY,,

I raced an 03, in 03, came with one right outta the showroom


http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0308_kawasaki_zx_6rr/index.html

The 6RR's gearbox sports the other big difference between it and its 636cc brother. Although the transmission ratios are identical to the 6R (more closely spaced ratios from third through sixth gear compared to the old 6R), the 6RR has the added benefit of a ramp-type slipper clutch, a first on a production 600

Read more: http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0308_kawasaki_zx_6rr/index.html#ixzz1zC46z9Jn​

In all fairness the '03 6RR wasn't really meant for the road. It was 36cc down on the standard (single) R also released that year cause Kawi needed the 36cc larger bore cheat to stay competitive in the ultra competitive (street) 600 class for the next few years (and the few years before also, before the revamp of the entire SS line-up, led by the '03 636R). As a side note, Triumph pulled the same trick with their 675 Daytona after the poor results of the first version of the Daytona.

The 600RR you speak of was just a homologated bike to allow them to enter the SuperSport class. So they dropped down to the regulated 600cc limit, ran off a few (over priced) street models to satisfy the racing rules and ran the 636 as a parallel line for the masses. The 600RR was focused and pitched (as a production bike) to club racers like yourself but was largely ignored on the street.

It's kind of like saying the Yamaha R7 had the first (anything) for a street bike. We all know that was a pure bred race bike with some lights thrown on it to satisfy FIM racing regulations to allow it to enter WSBK. The Ninja 600RR was no Honda RC1 on the street.

So when the '05 636 came along, Kawasaki themselves pitched it as the first road bike with a slipper as stock.

 

[reciprocity]

LMAO,

They did not pitch it as the first roadbike with a slipper clutch

Kawi had them in the 1989 ZX7, the ZX7 had a slipper or back torque limiting clutch unit all the way up to it's demise in 2003.

Any more inaccurate facts you'd like to share?

 

[infernobuster]

:happy1:

 

[awyala]

LMAO,

They did not pitch it as the first roadbike with a slipper clutch

Kawi had them in the 1989 ZX7, the ZX7 had a slipper or back torque limiting clutch unit all the way up to it's demise in 2003.

Any more inaccurate facts you'd like to share?

I'm tellin ya, when I bought the darn bike, the brochure stated that. It was half the hype about that bike.

But I'll double check my "facts", maybe it had some creative marketing jargon I misinterpreted or something. I'll do some research.

 

[dricked]

My 04 zx10 has a slipper...

 

[reciprocity]

I'm wearing slippers right now, I've misplaced my crack pipe however.

based on the information provided,,seems the majority of those posting in this thread have their's close by!

 

[awyala]

I think I am wrong on this ZX6R 2005 slipper clutch issue.

 

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