Panigale vs. S1000RR vs. RSV4

[FriendlyFoe]

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There are some fundamental differences in the powerplants, bore and stroke being the main one which puts physical limits on power.

Yes there are. I've never actually looked at those numbers but apparently the bmw is a fair bit more oversquare then the GSXR, full potential of the motor you should be able to spin the gsxr higher without it blowing up, which would probably make more top end in the long run. I dont know enough about either engine, maybe the bmw just has a way better oiling system that lets them make more reliable power with it? It is pretty cool that bmw can make the sort of top end power numbers with a much shorter stroke tho, and have the engines stay together on street duty.

Id still take a V4 (and any V4, still waiting for honda to stick a v4 in a sportbike!!) to build off of any day tho =D

 

[murf]

Yes there are. I've never actually looked at those numbers but apparently the bmw is a fair bit more oversquare then the GSXR, full potential of the motor you should be able to spin the gsxr higher without it blowing up, which would probably make more top end in the long run. I dont know enough about either engine, maybe the bmw just has a way better oiling system that lets them make more reliable power with it? It is pretty cool that bmw can make the sort of top end power numbers with a much shorter stroke tho, and have the engines stay together on street duty.

Id still take a V4 (and any V4, still waiting for honda to stick a v4 in a sportbike!!) to build off of any day tho =D

You got it wrong, the GSXR cannot spin faster

 

[FriendlyFoe]

how do you figure? Smaller bore = lighter pistons that you should be able to rev higher. Or does the longer stroke in this case negate that. I'm thinking this exact conversation is how they ended up with 5 cylinder GP bikes lol.

 

[OpenGambit]

Still waiting on those action pics.

He is cutting them out of a magazine. give him a few days.

 

[Shaman]

You got it wrong, the GSXR cannot spin faster

All three of my GSX-Rs spin about 500-700 RPM higher than stock in terms of peak horsepower. Only the "pro" bike has different pistons, and all three have aftermarket springs. You can get piston speed around 6,000 FPS with modern piston coatings and rings and so you could rev the GSX-R motor to 14,000+ if you wanted to. Look at WSBK and AMA, they make in the area of 240whp with GSX-R engines.

So yes, you can spin them higher. You can even spin them a bit higher with a completely stock bottom end, if you have degreed (or replacement) cams and springs. The major limiter is piston speed, and the deeper the crank throw is, the higher the piston speed... so the GSX-R engine typically will make better low and midrange torque and potentially less high end power than a shorter-stroke design - but realistically unless you are in MotoGP, you can make more power than you can use, so it's a moot point.

He is cutting them out of a magazine. give him a few days.

I look forward to checking the pixels for shops.

 

[Scuba Steve]

how do you figure? Smaller bore = lighter pistons that you should be able to rev higher. Or does the longer stroke in this case negate that. I'm thinking this exact conversation is how they ended up with 5 cylinder GP bikes lol.

Backwards logic the shorter the stroke the lower the piston speed, the higher the rpm. That is why a Harley with its long stroke can only spin 4000 rpm it has huge piston speeds at low RPM. The weight of the piston is much less of a factor than piston speed in RPM limitations.

 

[FriendlyFoe]

Backwards logic the shorter the stroke the lower the piston speed, the higher the rpm. That is why a Harley with its long stroke can only spin 4000 rpm it has huge piston speeds at low RPM. The weight of the piston is much less of a factor than piston speed in RPM limitations.

That makes sense. Not sure why my mind is working in reverse this morning.

 

[Griffin]

I guess that makes sense, if I rode a monocle wearing flatfish I would want to convince people it was a better bike too.

I don't give a flying f* what anyone thinks of my bike. I love it. That's all that counts to me.

I do admire both the Ape and the Duc. The Ape doesn't fit me so it was not an option for me. The Duc was a close second when I was choosing (the 1198 - the Panegale wasn't out then). I like the Duc a lot but it doesn't suit my riding. I need more range.

There are a lot of very opinionated posts in this thread. Some folks REALLY hate some bikes. I notice a few just can't help dumping on certain bikes in any thread that they appear in. I don't understand but wonder why that is. Reminds me a bit of homophobes that actually are just terrified they might be gay.

 

[redridernl]

I like certain things about the three bikes being discussed but I'm quite happy with my CBR. Now... if I was in the market for a bike that I had to order parts for three months in advance it would be the RSV4 hands down because I prefer the looks and the sound. I couldn't care less about the difference in performance between the three, the limiting factor there would be me.

 

[dricked]

I find the ape and duc a little more exotic so that's what draws me to them more than the BMW. You can't use any of them for what they're meant for on the street so unless your on the track, the bike that fits you best and puts the biggest **** eating grin on your face is the bike for you.

 

[murf]

All three of my GSX-Rs spin about 500-700 RPM higher than stock in terms of peak horsepower. Only the "pro" bike has different pistons, and all three have aftermarket springs. You can get piston speed around 6,000 FPS with modern piston coatings and rings and so you could rev the GSX-R motor to 14,000+ if you wanted to. Look at WSBK and AMA, they make in the area of 240whp with GSX-R engines.


So yes, you can spin them higher. You can even spin them a bit higher with a completely stock bottom end, if you have degreed (or replacement) cams and springs. The major limiter is piston speed, and the deeper the crank throw is, the higher the piston speed... so the GSX-R engine typically will make better low and midrange torque and potentially less high end power than a shorter-stroke design - but realistically unless you are in MotoGP, you can make more power than you can use, so it's a moot point.



I look forward to checking the pixels for shops.

The GSXR will reach terminal piston speed earlier, everything being equal. Thats all I was demonstrating to the fella that did not have a grasp on stroke and piston speed.

 

[OpenGambit]

I don't give a flying f* what anyone thinks of my bike. I love it. That's all that counts to me.

I do admire both the Ape and the Duc. The Ape doesn't fit me so it was not an option for me. The Duc was a close second when I was choosing (the 1198 - the Panegale wasn't out then). I like the Duc a lot but it doesn't suit my riding. I need more range.

There are a lot of very opinionated posts in this thread. Some folks REALLY hate some bikes. I notice a few just can't help dumping on certain bikes in any thread that they appear in. I don't understand but wonder why that is. Reminds me a bit of homophobes that actually are just terrified they might be gay.

Go away griffin, we are messing with the guy ok? =P

 

[Shaman]

The GSXR will reach terminal piston speed earlier, everything being equal. Thats all I was demonstrating to the fella that did not have a grasp on stroke and piston speed.

It's true, sure. In practicality, it probably only means that the deeper-stroke engine will be more radical in terms of piston speed and probably last less long if used at similarly high RPM. But it may also mean that the deeper-stroke engine won't need to be used that way, given that it makes good accelerative thrust at lower RPMs and will have a broader power range.

These days, you can usually have your cake and eat it too, as they say in jolly old England.

(still waiting on those action pics, arsenalrocks! they must be great!)

While we're waiting, some entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh1wnZrSVq8

 

[BMW]

As a non-pro track rider, I can say that my S1000RR on the track is an absolutely incredible machine. Predictable, smooth, flick-able and very forgiving. The speed goes without saying. I bought one of the first ones ever made and have never wanted for anything else since - and I've ridden many others on the track to compare. My two cents as an owner.

 

[mmmnaked]

Predictable, smooth, flick-able and very forgiving. The speed goes without saying.

I feel that about every bike I've owned.

 

[Griffin]

I find the ape and duc a little more exotic so that's what draws me to them more than the BMW. You can't use any of them for what they're meant for on the street so unless your on the track, the bike that fits you best and puts the biggest **** eating grin on your face is the bike for you.

I'll give you an amen on that.

Go away griffin, we are messing with the guy ok? =P

 

[awyala]

My list would have, and did include the MV Augusta F4 and KTM RC8R also. In the end I pulled the trigger on the Pani!

1. Pani (ticked all the boxes, including 916 nostalgia!)
2. RC8R (Most exotic, stunning, VTwin fun, but lacked the punch, sophistication, of the Pani. Too mild of an engine honestly)
3. MV Agusta (lost it's exotic appeal. Great performance, but sloppy seconds after Harley tainted their once mighty prowess. Still a stunner though)
4. RSV4 (Someone butchered the Mille! Bring back the Mille! Racer's swear by its handling, but others swear the Pani matched that too!)
5. S1000R (shoot out bragging rights...been there dont that with the '09 ZX10R in its hey day. That's a short lived high. I need something that will carry me 10 years down the line like a 916, rather than be the bike I trade up in 2 years like an HP junkie. I can't get past the looks like a hideous fat chick who I know cooks like a Manderine chef while juggling 3 babies. Give me some arm candy, a hearty sandwhich, and I can wear the baby back pack from time to time. But some dudes love fat chicks!)

 

[redridernl]

4. RSV4 (Someone butchered the Mille! Bring back the Mille! Racer's swear by its handling, but others swear the Pani matched that too!)

I was with you right up until this^^. The RSV4 is stunning.

Of course looks are completely subjective, still you're completely wrong on this one. :razz:

 

[awyala]

BTW, I have huge respect for those die hard racers who vouche for modding up a GSXR and tearing up the track. I know a few racers who, as they all do, chop and change a base bike and tailor it to their style and needs and do things with that bike that no one could match with a BMW in stock trim. I am not part of that argument, I am simply not that good of a rider. I don't know the logistics behind starting with a base bike with a reliable engine that can go 5 races without a major overhaul, or an affordable base that allows a budget to further enhance it beyond any out of the crate street bike. I don't know what delivery times are and after market variety is like between various bike models.
I do know the Pani is a terribile base bike for anyone on this forum, from probably engine life, to spares, to the sheer price you would need to pay to augment and tailor its performance. For that price you could match it 3 times over with a Gixxer.

But that's not what this is about, and deep down, we value even the most shallow, base and superficial aspects and criteria when we make our choice between these bikes.

Let's admit, none of us need that performance and we all get a kick out of how many heads we turn.

The Aprilia for example wont turn heads of averge Joe on the street. They wont appreciate how exotic it is. The Aprilia's exotic appeal is registered amoung the racing die hards!

The Ducati is second only to Apple in brand placement in movies, and wets the appetite of your average Tim Hortons immigrant cashier! Quite literally I was asked by "Mohsin", due to my helmet, what do I ride a "Ducati or a Harley"!!!!!

And the BMW, well....there is a bragging appeal to a different set, and hell....there are some that even feel the BMW badge carries the same clout as their cars! Certainly I have heard rumors about a certain pompus swagger among S1000R riders...a certain elevated status type swagger. Maybe a carry over from the HP2 Sport Boxer...I don't know. But let's face it, we all desire that status recognition when we debate the merrits of these bikes!

 

[awyala]

I was with you right up until this^^. The RSV4 is stunning.

Of course looks are completely subjective, still you're completely wrong on this one. :razz:

Maybe it's just me, but I fell in love with the Mille Factory, it's golden brembos, blue rims, techy looking front fairing (big, mean, and intimidating), twin exhuasts that looked like battleship cannons. It broke my heart what they did to the Mille, having lost that style heritage. Performance wise, wow what a comback! From the withdrawal from WSBK and MotoGP, their comback was truly epic, and my heart goes out to the saga that is the comeback fairy tale that is Biaggi's humbled return to greatness....but I wanted an evolution of the Mille.

I have extremely high respect for the RSV4....after all, isn't it pretty much their MotoGP engine in a new guise? Hell, it's practically a Desmosedicci!!! But for me I couldn't get past the looks. I am also a sucker for a sexy dash....after all I have to stare at the dash 90% of the time. RSV4 dash was way too....domestic for me. Aprilia should have slapped a Pani style dash on that bad boy like MV or KTM did. Oh and what's up with that apocalypse trumpet it comes with stock?!?!?!

I liked the idea that there wasn't a single thing I would change from stock on the Pani!

I mean look at these cannons!

And look at this air scoop about to inhale anything in its way!

I miss this and the Troy Corser glory of the Mille of the past era. Maybe I am just getting old!

I love everything about this, from the paint job, to the fairing which tucks away most of the engine, to the sleak integrated lights, to the elegant frame. The new RSV4 has sissy little air scoops, a 3rd light just to fill the void of the old air scoop. skimpy fairings (I don't wanna see that much engine casing!), and a frame that lacks elegance and a Euro emmissions castrated / mutilated trombone! I have said enough....style is too personal and subjective and I don't wont to offend on such an emotional level.

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