Middle weight upgrade, best value and performance...

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I started on an SV650, and now in my 4th season, after about 24000 kms on it, I'm VERY curious to try something new, but I know that I've definitely NOT out-grown it. The only real reason I wish to move-on from the SV is that I'm now at a skill-level at which I can differentiate poor suspension characteristics, and I long for something that feels more planted and sporty for the twisty roads, rather than the questionable feed-back I sometimes get from the SV.

My gf started riding at the same time I did, and has 250 as well. I ride it occasionally, and even though I'm far from Rossi-like riding capability, the bike feels like a mountain-bike to me; I can't take it seriously at all. That's not to say that there aren't crazy-skilled 250 riders out there that can ride circles around me, its just the combination of throttle response, ergonomics and ride characteristics (even compared to my lowly SV) are just not in alignment with my preferences.

My uses for a motorcycle are the same as the OP's, and the SV has been extremely good to me. I'm also considering an FZ8 as potiential next-bike, however people have been reviewing the suspension as it's weak-point as well... I might just say "**** it" and try out an R6 for a season or two.
 
Kri$han said:
I started on an SV650, and now in my 4th season, after about 24000 kms on it, I'm VERY curious to try something new, but I know that I've definitely NOT out-grown it. The only real reason I wish to move-on from the SV is that I'm now at a skill-level at which I can differentiate poor suspension characteristics, and I long for something that feels more planted and sporty for the twisty roads, rather than the questionable feed-back I sometimes get from the SV.

My gf started riding at the same time I did, and has 250 as well. I ride it occasionally, and even though I'm far from Rossi-like riding capability, the bike feels like a mountain-bike to me; I can't take it seriously at all. That's not to say that there aren't crazy-skilled 250 riders out there that can ride circles around me, its just the combination of throttle response, ergonomics and ride characteristics (even compared to my lowly SV) are just not in alignment with my preferences.

My uses for a motorcycle are the same as the OP's, and the SV has been extremely good to me. I'm also considering an FZ8 as potiential next-bike, however people have been reviewing the suspension as it's weak-point as well... I might just say "**** it" and try out an R6 for a season or two.
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Suspension modifications, done by a professional, are cheaper than a new bike.
 
Now that the original poster has made a decision ...

TAKE THAT TRAINING COURSE. Do it sooner rather than later. You need to un-learn whatever bad habits you may have, and step up beyond what they teach you in beginner's riding courses, in a REAL big hurry.
 
To address a few of the questions posted to me...

I'm an older driver. I've had my G license for over 20 years with a clean record. Therefore even after insuring both the 250 and the ZX6R with full coverage as a new rider I'm well under $200 a month.

I couldn't pass up on a great deal hence the reason I bought the bike earlier than expected. On the road, I picked up the new bike for under MSRP of any of the bikes that I was interested in from Triumph to GSXR-750. So for me it was a no brain er. I get a comparable bike TODAY and saved well over $5000 depending on which bike I chose.

That Triumph sure was a sweet ride though. I highly recommend anyone go for a test ride and see for yourself why they get such great reviews. IMO they are like a 250 with loads of power and braking, which make you feel like you can do anything like stunts and zig zag through traffic. :)

With regard to the commuting question, I got a little scared about theft and over heating in traffic with a bigger engine. So since I still have my 250 insured I figure I can keep it for commuting, not worry if it gets stolen or if I crash it on the track whenever I decide to go. So far I've been commuting since April and nothing has happened to my 250.

I will take the ZX6R downtown and see what happens, how comfortable it is and what the commute is like in this Humid climate of ours. If all works well then there is no reason to have 2 bikes.

I definitely plan on taking the racer5 course. I'm sure it will be WAAAAYYYY more fun than the parking lot practice I've been doing to this point. LOL

I hope I've helped answer your questions.
 
So do you find the huge difference in power manageable? I was very reluctant to make the big jump from the 250R to an SS class bike. So I decided to take the next step and get a 650R. Can you give a brief summary on what you notice so far? The ZX6R was one of the bikes I am also considering in my next upgrade.

thanks
 
Every rider is different so I can't speak for anyone except for myself. It's similar to any other sport that requires practice and time to improve on skill. Some can pick up quicker than others and some can never play.

As for me, I've been able to pick up sports very quickly with my martial arts background. I'm also a bit of a thrill seeker for things that present some risk. For example rock climbing, scuba diving, repelling, white water rafting, zip lining to name a few things. So making big jumps in a short period of time is kind of in my blood. I tend to get bored real fast. LOL

So having said that since late April I've logged 5000km on my 250. The first week alone I must have ridden nearly 1000km of that just to get my bike out of the break in period and to get myself out of the fear from all the elements. Wind, rain, gravel, heavy leaning etc...

What I can tell you is during the first few weeks I tested a 650R and that first experience of getting on that bigger bike was a bit scary. When I turned the throttle I felt like the bike was gonna take off from under me and it was enough just to hold on.

After a few more weeks of logged highway, street and parking lot riding my confidence grew to a point where much of the earlier fears I had turned into, been there done that what's next.

So that's when I got to do the Suzuki Demo day and tested the BUSA and other SS bikes. At that point the fear turned to excitement to find which bike was the best at going faster and most flick-able going into a corner. :) No more feeling of this bike is gonna get away from me, since inherently I was doing things that I learned that boosted my confidence. To be honest none of the bikes from 750cc and below popped a wheelie when I cranked the throttle at speed. I'm sure it can be done in the right situation but that was a big fear I kept reading about the sport bikes.

One of my goals is to do simple stunts like wheelies and endos hence the reason I got the slider cage.

So long story short. :) For me I'm fine with the upgrade and can't wait to get the bike and start doing tricks in safe places. For regular day to day street riding if you are safe on the 250, you should be equally safe on a bigger bike. However, the more road time you have, the more mistakes you make and learn from. So if you have not put in the time to experience tricky situations then all I can say is be more careful with a bigger, faster bike.

No-one will know you better than yourself. Assess your skills, be safe and good luck with your decision.



250R-ICE said:
So do you find the huge difference in power manageable? I was very reluctant to make the big jump from the 250R to an SS class bike. So I decided to take the next step and get a 650R. Can you give a brief summary on what you notice so far? The ZX6R was one of the bikes I am also considering in my next upgrade.

thanks
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By the way, I found this recently and it has helped me to better understand the technology of proper cornering and counter steering the bike. I think it's invaluable information!!! Before this I used to lean heavy to turn the bike in sharp corners and fast figure eights. Ohh what a difference knowledge and understanding makes. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWH_QiXw5n4
 
ROGO said:
By the way, I found this recently and it has helped me to better understand the technology of proper cornering and counter steering the bike. I think it's invaluable information!!! Before this I used to lean heavy to turn the bike in sharp corners and fast figure eights. Ohh what a difference knowledge and understanding makes. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWH_QiXw5n4
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Skip straight to "Twist of the Wrist 2." It's easier to understand and somewhat better written, while covering the same information. Ignore the "Twist of the Wrist" tape/DVD. It's done like a corporate video or one of those sex ed films that you used to be forced to watch in health class, so it'll put you right to sleep. When I first picked up TotW2 I treated it like a school text book; read a section then applied it, until it became automatic. Then I moved on to the next section.
 
First Ride Impressions:


So yesterday I picked up my ZX6R and rode about 200km to break it in. With a 6000rpm maximum rev limit for break-in period recommended by the dealer, I'm quite happy and capable of keeping up with city driving speed limits and then some. In sixth gear I can get to 100km no problem, but was also told not to go over 100km. So for those of you with a 250 you can appreciate a huge difference there.


I'm not really sure if I'm sore this morning from my riding posture or if it's because I decided to start working out again. :) Perhaps it's a combination of both as I really didn't work out my neck and I'll assume the forward lean and need to lift my head up to see the road is the cause for the slight neck pain. I did not have that feeling even after many hours of riding with the 250.


Considering my max revs are 6000rpm and the top end is upwards of 14,000rpm I can appreciate why many of you guys are concerned with first time riders going to big to fast. One really has to respect the power and danger of controlling a SS.


For those of you looking to upgrade from a 250 to a ZX6R(6R), you'll notice the 6R ride position is slightly higher and definitely heavier bike. Along with the handle bars sitting lower and foot pegs being higher, I sometimes find that slow tight turns and merging into traffic, at this point is not as easy as the 250. For example with my 250 I'm able in first and second gear, to do tight figure eights by fully turning the handle bars without touching the ground with my feet.

On the 6R I’ll need to practice that. It's difficult to get the handlebars to fully turn left or right as my wrists will hit the tank before that happens. I find myself having turn my wrists way forward in order not to hit the tank.


It was a very nice afternoon and evening for riding yesterday. With my max rev limit at 6000rpm the bike got between 80-90 Degrees and did not run as hot as I expected. That part was comfortable and for commutes that are about an hour each way, I can see myself having no issues with this bike.


Once I break in the bike, I'll provide more comments about the power and whether or not experience on the bike will be scary or exciting. :) For now pain is good. It means I'm getting used to the bike. Once I get used to it, the pain will go away and I will be stronger and more confident.


So for those 250 guys looking to upgrade. I hope this helps a little. One final comment would be. If you don't have self control, make sure you have the skill to ride one of these machines. For many SS bikes, if you decide to twist that throttle to quickly, you can get into major trouble in less than 3.8 seconds. :)


Be safe and see you guys on the road!
 
Day 2 Break-in ZX6R:


I left my house at 8am this morning and came back at 2:30pm. Awesome riding day! Not so awesome riding position. :)


I took a quick break in between to demo the Suzuki SV650 to see what some have been suggesting as the recommended upgrade from the Ninja 250. I would have to agree that it does provide better riding position than an SS and would probably be better for commuting but the fun factor IMHO is missing.
(Everyone's definition of fun is different, I know.)


It did provide a well needed break from 3 straight hours of city riding on my 6R. Seems as though the bike is breaking me in more than I'm breaking the bike in LOL.


Average engine temperature was 80 degrees. Maximum was 101 degrees. IMO I could ride this bike in traffic for 60-90 min with no major problems or discomfort, once I get used to doing it fairly regularly.


I only wish I read the manual sooner and tweaked the suspension settings from stock. Later today I did just that and WOW what a major difference it made. The bike has settings everywhere. Damper here, compression there, shocks, steering, forks... OMG


Another huge difference from the 250 is that when I went to fill up, I only realized at that moment the bike requires 90 Octane (Supreme)!!! Damn!! There goes the savings. At least I'm getting 5.4L/100km. I'm sure I can do better than that if I weren't constantly shifting gears. I'm afraid of what the mileage will be once I can really rev the bike, though.

Cheers All and have a great riding weekend!


PS.
I don't know about the rest of you but most people want to drag when they have any type of half decent peppy car from Audi to Corvette. It makes me laugh so hard as most of us can take them with a Ninja 250. Even with the rev limitation on break-in I can get to the speed limit way faster than most sports cars. What are some people thinking. I just let them go ahead and think they just beat an SS. LMFAO
 
ROGO said:
Another huge difference from the 250 is that when I went to fill up, I only realized at that moment the bike requires 90 Octane (Supreme)!!! Damn!! There goes the savings. At least I'm getting 5.4L/100km. I'm sure I can do better than that if I weren't constantly shifting gears. I'm afraid of what the mileage will be once I can really rev the bike, though.
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Lol, SS is about fun, not savings :) Just wait till you start with all the mods, haha

ROGO said:
I don't know about the rest of you but most people want to drag when they have any type of half decent peppy car from Audi to Corvette. It makes me laugh so hard as most of us can take them with a Ninja 250. Even with the rev limitation on break-in I can get to the speed limit way faster than most sports cars. What are some people thinking. I just let them go ahead and think they just beat an SS. LMFAO
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Funny thing happens to me every time a car wants to race, which is almost every time i'm out riding: I twist the wrist in any gear, and it seems that makes the car drivers to slam on the brakes and stay in my mirror...hmm
 
Thanks for the updates - reviews , keep them coming. I was at the dealer this morning also. Brought one of my bikes in for a safety. While I was waiting I sat on the ZX6R for a few minutes trying to get a feel for the leaned over position. It's quite the difference even when compared to my 650R with the Sport Bars. I'm not sure I would be able to ride in that position for more than hour. Surprisingly the bike felt a lot lighter than my 650R. I would say it's somewhere in between the 250R and 650R.

I know you talked about the slow speed manouvers being more difficult. But how did you find the turns at intersections when compared to the 250R. I know I can take turns a lot quicker and sharper with the 250R than I can with the 650R.

thanks
 
Corsara said:
Lol, SS is about fun, not savings :) Just wait till you start with all the mods, haha



Funny thing happens to me every time a car wants to race, which is almost every time i'm out riding: I twist the wrist in any gear, and it seems that makes the car drivers to slam on the brakes and stay in my mirror...hmm
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Haha, it's definitely a testosterone thing. :)

Any Ladies want to comment if you twist the wrist and leave them far behind your tail. ;)
 
250R-ICE said:
Thanks for the updates - reviews , keep them coming. I was at the dealer this morning also. Brought one of my bikes in for a safety. While I was waiting I sat on the ZX6R for a few minutes trying to get a feel for the leaned over position. It's quite the difference even when compared to my 650R with the Sport Bars. I'm not sure I would be able to ride in that position for more than hour. Surprisingly the bike felt a lot lighter than my 650R. I would say it's somewhere in between the 250R and 650R.

I know you talked about the slow speed maneuvers being more difficult. But how did you find the turns at intersections when compared to the 250R. I know I can take turns a lot quicker and sharper with the 250R than I can with the 650R.

thanks
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Intersections are not a problem, it's more U turns and specifically one situation that continually occurs since I like to get gas at the same place at Hurontario and Bovaird. They seem to be 2 cents cheaper than the rest. Anyway, if you are familiar with the gas station, the exit to Bovaird heading east is in the path of a Bus lane. The bus lane acts as a step down from the curb, so it's a little tricky when merging cuz, I'm 5'8" and at that particular spot, unless you have momentum...

let's just say it's kind of an interesting situation when the front wheel is in the bus lane and the back wheel is on the gas station and I'm on my toes waiting for traffic to pass.

Unique situation that could have been handled better I'm sure but, new bike, new experience and all that. Since the 250 has a lower stance that never happened to me before then. So regular riding is fine. It's the parking lot stuff and slow maneuvers that really showcase the wider turning radius, extra weight and height of the 6R.

At speed the bike can really lean and it's pretty flick-able too. My chicken strips are like 2mm and I only practiced for like 30 minutes today.

One other difference I noticed is the tires! Earlier posts I commented on the skinny tires. :)

Well, with the big fat SS tires the long strips of tar on the roads and street car tracks are not as noticeable when riding over them. Commuting downtown on the 250 I always had a little fear of the street car tracks as I've slid slightly while turning at speed and wobbled while changing lanes early in my riding experience. Today the SS just soaked up all that stuff.

If you ever ride on Disco Road between Steeles and Carlingview on a 250 at 80km you'll know what I mean about feeling every tar strip. It's almost like riding on gravel you want to slow down and be safe. Also turn slowly when over street car tracks as they are slippery if you try making a turn at 40km plus. Slide, skid, wobble recover. Phew!

Cheers!
 
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Day 3 final post. :)

I'm not done riding for the day but just got back from a nice morning ride. As mentioned earlier what a HUGE difference the bike makes with adjusted suspension. I rode double this morning and all the bumps were smooth and the bike is starting to feel much smoother when shifting through the gears.

A short practice session and I'm now able control full turn in first and second with bars hitting the gas tank. Turning circle is noticeably wider. With the 250 I can turn within 2 parking spaces. The 6R needs 2.5 spaces and the throttle response is certainly diff. The nice thing though is the bike won't stall like I hear Yamaha's R6 might. Power band is not a VTwin but for an SS it's pretty even on the low and mid range.

I took out the 250 yesterday and boy what a difference. Almost feels like I'm riding a motocross and the added technology of the ZX6R certainly left me with a feeling of... hmmm something is lacking here with the 250. Don't get me wrong the 250 is a great bike but certainly apples and oranges comparison. So to be fair it really should not be compared. Having said that the pros of the 250 are the comfort, ride height, maneuverability, mileage and most important IMHO is the ability for new riders to learn and appreciate the joy of motorcycling!

As others have mentioned a 250 is no slouch and can out corner much bigger and faster SS bikes.

Overall, I'm very happy with the upgrade and at this time I'm also physically comfortable with semi long commutes. The biggest discomfort at this stage for me is the lower neck strain (not really pain) that comes from having to keep my head up all the time. Maybe when I get to my 50's or plan to ride for long trips, I might consider a sport touring for comfort but for now I'm quite happy with the new bike. It's meeting my needs and then some!

I've setup a ride this coming Friday and hope to meet some of you.

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...m-Timmies-Woodbridge-ZX6R-Group-Meet-and-Ride

Have a great day all!
 
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ROGO said:
A short practice session and I'm now able control full turn in first and second with bars hitting the gas tank. Turning circle is noticeably wider. With the 250 I can turn within 2 parking spaces. The 6R needs 2.5 spaces and the throttle response is certainly diff. The nice thing though is the bike won't stall like I hear Yamaha's R6 might.
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I am no expert, but what I found that works great for me is to be slipping the clutch while revving more in the very slow speed practice turns, and maybe feathering the rear brake to just keep the speed slow, but the engine still pulling. For me that seems to do the trick, no stalling ever, and together with shifting the weight to the outside peg and looking as much behind as possible, no problems turning in 2 car spaces if I have to. But that's just what works for me, maybe I'm completely wrong.
 
Corsara said:
I am no expert, but what I found that works great for me is to be slipping the clutch while revving more in the very slow speed practice turns, and maybe feathering the rear brake to just keep the speed slow, but the engine still pulling. For me that seems to do the trick, no stalling ever, and together with shifting the weight to the outside peg and looking as much behind as possible, no problems turning in 2 car spaces if I have to. But that's just what works for me, maybe I'm completely wrong.
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Without the rear break, I've tried what you suggest as well. For now I'm trying to be cheap and not cause friction and wear on the clutch. :) Once I get flawless control with just the front break and body balancing then I will practice what you suggest. Unless someone who is more experienced can provide suggestions.

Although you may not have a choice with a GSXR1000. Also both the 250 and the ZX6R pull fine in slow speed. Definitely clunky when I twist the throttle without clutch though.

Thanks for the comment.
 
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ROGO said:
Without the rear break, I've tried what you suggest as well. For now I'm trying to be cheap and not cause friction and wear on the clutch. :) Once I get flawless control with just the front break and body balancing then I will practice what you suggest. Unless someone who is more experienced can provide suggestions.

Although you may not have a choice with a GSXR1000. Also both the 250 and the ZX6R pull fine in slow speed. Definitely clunky when I twist the throttle without clutch though.

Thanks for the comment.
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You won't wear the clutch from that, lol.. also I'm not talking 14k rpm slipping the clutch to do a u-turn, just a bit of juice above idle, that's all that's needed.

Also be careful with that front brake and the slow speed maneuvering, you'll find the bike on the ground in no time. 250cc or 1000cc, i think it's all the same in the slow-speed u-turns..
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