License plate blocker

[Rob MacLennan]

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Actually I have. I sold my trailer and the guy used my plates on the 407 a few times. I should have cancelled the plates but never thought of it, bad call on my part. On the phone they were rather helpful getting me a printout of where and when the plates were used, as well as sending me the picture taken at each use. Armed with that i was able to contact the buyer and he sent me the $ for the usage.

I am also familiar with the highways that are supposed to exist but don't. When the plans were scrapped that traffic load was shifted elsewhere. The QEW, 403 and 401 (at least for the west end) absorbed it all. What was done to help with that increased traffic load? Did anyone have the foresight to know that the 401 and QEW would soon become overwhelmed? Apparently not. Either that or no one cared enough to do anything about it. Don't even get me started on the DVP.....

They may not be 40 years behind, but they are decades. 10 years ago the drive from Milton to Pearson was a nightmare. Now i'd rather light my pants on fire than do that commute every day. The 401 ought to be no less than 5 lanes each direction from Kitchener to Oshawa.

I can only say that the experiences of myself, and all the people I know when dealing with the 407, have been anything but smooth. Just getting someone on the phone has been an issue, at times.

What I was attempting to illustrate, is that the 401 isn't 40 years behind, or even 'decades' behind, because it's physically incapable of carrying the current volumes. There's nowhere for it to expand. Around the city they've been doing things, like eliminating the breakdown lane which creates an incredibly dangerous situation, not to mention giving traffic no options if a vehicle actually does break down.

The areas, that you're talking about, don't really have the sort of gridlock that would justify the expenditure of creating a 10 lane highway. Once you're past the abortion, that is the 401/410/403 split, things begin to move fairly well on the westbound 401. Eastbound, out to Oshawa, might well be a different situation. It is largely also due to lane merging though.

 

[caboose56]

The areas, that you're talking about, don't really have the sort of gridlock that would justify the expenditure of creating a 10 lane highway. Once you're past the abortion, that is the 401/410/403 split, things begin to move fairly well on the westbound 401. Eastbound, out to Oshawa, might well be a different situation. It is largely also due to lane merging though.

When i did the morning drive leaving in at 630AM it'd be smooth sailing to about Erin Mills Pkwy then it'd jam up quite badly all the way to the 410. In that stretch I'd be doing about 15-20kph, stop and go. That was 10 years ago, now the slow-down starts at Guelph Line. Westbound is a cluster**** through the 410/401 interchange but does alleviate a bit west of that. Jams up again for the 407 merge and through milton then it's ok west of Milton only to jam up again through Cambridge and Kitchener.

Who's fault is it that no one had any plan to accomadate more traffic? At the rate things are going, with population expansion and apparently no infrastructure plan, the only way to fix it will be widespread carpet bombing. When the other highways were abandoned, that was the time to preserve land next to the 401 for future expansion. Instead we have government run expansion and maintenance, with that comes little bandaid solutions that do very little. All the while traffic continues to choke the GTA. There are no long term solutions that might cost a lot now but save mountains of money down the road. Until such time that politics can see more than 4 years into the future nothing will change.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

When i did the morning drive leaving in at 630AM it'd be smooth sailing to about Erin Mills Pkwy then it'd jam up quite badly all the way to the 410. In that stretch I'd be doing about 15-20kph, stop and go. That was 10 years ago, now the slow-down starts at Guelph Line. Westbound is a cluster**** through the 410/401 interchange but does alleviate a bit west of that. Jams up again for the 407 merge and through milton then it's ok west of Milton only to jam up again through Cambridge and Kitchener.

Who's fault is it that no one had any plan to accomadate more traffic? At the rate things are going, with population expansion and apparently no infrastructure plan, the only way to fix it will be widespread carpet bombing.

That's just it; they did have a plan. Bill Davis turfed it. If a bunch of idiotic choke points could be eliminated, and accidents cleared more efficiently, then everything would move far better. From where I sit it really isn't the volume, it's those choke points. If you slam a bunch of highways and lanes together, over just a couple of Kms, then you've got that cluster **** you're talking about.

When I started working in downtown Toronto, almost 15 years ago, my commute was maybe 45 minutes coming home. Now it's more like one and a quarter hours. Most of that time is spent in a few areas, where traffic is largely unmoving. Hell, I can sometimes take a half hour just getting from Yonge and Dundas, onto The Gardiner.

 

[caboose56]

That's just it; they did have a plan. Bill Davis turfed it. If a bunch of idiotic choke points could be eliminated, and accidents cleared more efficiently, then everything would move far better. From where I sit it really isn't the volume, it's those choke points. If you slam a bunch of highways and lanes together, over just a couple of Kms, then you've got that cluster **** you're talking about.

When I started working in downtown Toronto, almost 15 years ago, my commute was maybe 45 minutes coming home. Now it's more like one and a quarter hours. Most of that time is spent in a few areas, where traffic is largely unmoving. Hell, I can sometimes take a half hour just getting from Yonge and Dundas, onto The Gardiner.

I'd say it's a combination of volume and idiotic choke points.

Fixing choke points = carpet bombing
Fixing volume constraints = expansion (which is now nearly impossible)

Good luck with that!

 

[turbodish]

I'd say it's a combination of volume and idiotic choke points.

Fixing choke points = carpet bombing
Fixing volume constraints = expansion (which is now nearly impossible)

Good luck with that!

Or you encourage alternate transport, be it car pooling or mass transit. If driving a personal car is cheap, that's what people will do even if it's slow. People will listen to the radio, maybe read the paper, do their make-up, talk on the phone, and kill time in traffic in those and any number of other ways.

Throw a higher dollar number on the cost of commuting whether through gas prices or toll charges, and more people who have the option will start to look at the other alternatives - mass transit, or relocating closer to where they need to travel, or changing work/school locations tolocales nearer to their homes.

Right now, there is insufficient "pain" effect to force people to consider any of that, and as a result traffic volume and commuting distances continue to remain and rise at levels that are not sustainable in the long run.

 

[caboose56]

Or you encourage alternate transport, be it car pooling or mass transit. If driving a personal car is cheap, that's what people will do even if it's slow. People will listen to the radio, maybe read the paper, do their make-up, talk on the phone, and kill time in traffic in those and any number of other ways.

Throw a higher dollar number on the cost of commuting whether through gas prices or toll charges, and more people who have the option will start to look at the other alternatives - mass transit, or relocating closer to where they need to travel, or changing work/school locations tolocales nearer to their homes.

Right now, there is insufficient "pain" effect to force people to consider any of that, and as a result traffic volume and commuting distances continue to remain and rise at levels that are not sustainable in the long run.

For most commuters mass transit is not viable. Other cities manage to do it properly, why can't the GTA?

The 401 through Toronto at 9am on Sunday = "Rush Hour" through Atlanta.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Or you encourage alternate transport, be it car pooling or mass transit. If driving a personal car is cheap, that's what people will do even if it's slow. People will listen to the radio, maybe read the paper, do their make-up, talk on the phone, and kill time in traffic in those and any number of other ways.

Throw a higher dollar number on the cost of commuting whether through gas prices or toll charges, and more people who have the option will start to look at the other alternatives - mass transit, or relocating closer to where they need to travel, or changing work/school locations tolocales nearer to their homes.

Right now, there is insufficient "pain" effect to force people to consider any of that, and as a result traffic volume and commuting distances continue to remain and rise at levels that are not sustainable in the long run.

Or you go the other way; cheap, subsidized mass transit. Make it attractive. Use the carrot rather than the stick, that government is far too used to making use of. Not everything has to be about punishing the electorate.

 

[turbodish]

Or you go the other way; cheap, subsidized mass transit. Make it attractive. Use the carrot rather than the stick, that government is far too used to making use of. Not everything has to be about punishing the electorate.

It's not an issue of "punishing" the electorate - it's more about making making the costs of various infrastructure abundantly clear. Highways are expensive to build and maintain. Tolls are a viable way to put the costs of that particular infrastructure directly at the feet of those whose choices make construction of that infrastructure necessary, and they force the electorate to choose between paying their way or making alternate choices.

I agree that mass transit should be more user-friendly and efficient, but I don't think that is necessarily the same as "cheap". It should be cheaper than running a personal vehicle though.

Right now the cost to an individual to run a personal vehicle over long commuting distances does not really reflect the real costs of the infrastructure required. The short-commute drivers and even non-driving taxpayers are subsidizing the long distance commuters. Toll highways would remove some of that subsidy and transfer more of the real costs upon those who use the highways most. That's one reason why mass transit doesn't "appear" to offer sufficient savings compared to just riding alone in a car on the highway or through suburbia.

 

[caboose56]

Or you go the other way; cheap, subsidized mass transit. Make it attractive. Use the carrot rather than the stick, that government is far too used to making use of. Not everything has to be about punishing the electorate.

Also requires the aforementioned carpet bombing to build.

 

[Myztyk]

We paid for that hwy to be built now instead of our province reaping the rewards of the profits it is now a third party getting rich off us. I don't blame them I blame our gov't mistake. Anyways all of this comments made me realize my mistakes and I will forever be a good citizen.

Excuse my sarcasm

Correction. You paid for a very small portion of that highway. The rest has been invested by said private corporation in order to expand lanes and length of the highway.

You can almost guarantee this would not have been built had the governement still owned it. Canadian governments just don't have this kind of long term vision. (And I'd be willing to bet the prices would be just as high with McTaxy in power).

 

[Rob MacLennan]

It's not an issue of "punishing" the electorate - it's more about making making the costs of various infrastructure abundantly clear. Highways are expensive to build and maintain. Tolls are a viable way to put the costs of that particular infrastructure directly at the feet of those whose choices make construction of that infrastructure necessary, and they force the electorate to choose between paying their way or making alternate choices.

I agree that mass transit should be more user-friendly and efficient, but I don't think that is necessarily the same as "cheap". It should be cheaper than running a personal vehicle though.

Right now the cost to an individual to run a personal vehicle over long commuting distances does not really reflect the real costs of the infrastructure required. The short-commute drivers and even non-driving taxpayers are subsidizing the long distance commuters. Toll highways would remove some of that subsidy and transfer more of the real costs upon those who use the highways most. That's one reason why mass transit doesn't "appear" to offer sufficient savings compared to just riding alone in a car on the highway or through suburbia.

No, I suppose it isn't about punishing the electorate, though it certainly appears that way. What it's really about is constantly going back to the trough, for more money, when more than adequate taxes are already being paid. Look at how the Americans handle tolls; a mere fraction of what we charge, despite being in less densely populated areas than the 407 crosses. The electorate even pushes for their removal, after the toll road has been deemed "paid for."

Get gas taxes out of general coffers. Apply them to transportation, as was the original intent. I know, it's a stupid idea.

 

[06ravenS]

http://www.phantomplate.com/

Has anyone tried the spray? I wanna get it and return my 407 transponder for my cage. Not to mention no tickets for red lights.

I love threads like these. Have any of you even read the original post. The guy is asking if anyone has used this product. He is not asking if you think he is a criminal or for your political views. Good for you if you are straight as an arrow and have never broken a law in your life but some of us are not like you so if you have no input for the question at hand keep your slandering comments to yourselves

and to Jonny5 the others that actions like these really bother you as an individual is simply sad and you should really get a some hobbies or a friend or something

as for the question no I haven't tried it but the tricplate is something I"m looking into

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I love threads like these. Have any of you even read the original post. The guy is asking if anyone has used this product. He is not asking if you think he is a criminal or for your political views. Good for you if you are straight as an arrow and have never broken a law in your life but some of us are not like you so if you have no input for the question at hand keep your slandering comments to yourselves

and to Jonny5 the others that actions like these really bother you as an individual is simply sad and you should really get a some hobbies or a friend or something

as for the question no I haven't tried it but the tricplate is something I"m looking into

Thing is, that the question was answered back on page one. These products have been thoroughly debunked.

 

[Prince]

OP, disregard the pylon-heads in this thread and stop sweating it. Your life, live it as you may. FWIW, I'm with you. "Everything" in Ontario is a rip-off. The pylon-heads in this thread can't seem to differentiate between "legal crime" (Government) and "illegal crime" (breaking the legal criminals (Governemts) rules and regs).

Today on the news, "Ontario pays the highest insurance rates in Canada..." ****, Ontario pays for everything in Canada while other provinces reap the rewards of our work. If the Canadian government is going to rape us for every earned dollar, they should at least let us get to work safely and timely while doing the raping.

The 401 can no longer support the GTA alone. Did the Harris crooks even think that perhaps our city would become too large within 99 years to lean it all on one crumbling highway that was built in the 60's? Did they leave stipulations that the HWY could be seized by the Government of Canada at any time? No.

In 2098 George Jetson will pass you in his flying vehicle making the 407 "deal" the laughing stock of any "deal" gone wrong for a country ever. It'll lay dormant with weeds growing as new forms of transportation are utilized.

EVERYTHING is a rip-off in Ontario. When is the last time you smiled in Ontario because you got a deal, or a break? Probably never.

There are two links to hiding your plate in this thread...one on the cheap ($50), one on the expensive ($500). Pick one and steal from the thieves that created this mess. And don't feel badly for it for a second. Stealing from thieves is a special kind of karma.

 

[daisoman]

Wow and I was starting to think I was some dirty as$ thief... Thanks guys for the input. I will not be trying this product but looking for other alternatives. And don't get me started on insurance.

 

[ddusseld]

I agree that the costs to maintain/build highways are very high.

But, I believe if all of the taxes that are generated by owning and operating a vehicle were applied to transportation infrastructure there would be a surplus of money. I have no way of proving this but I doubt
it can be disproved, maybe Turbo has numbers on this?

Until public transit is cheaper and faster then driving, people will drive. Really simple. Even with gridlock public transit (not including the subway) is slower and more expensive especially if you already factor in that you are going to own a vehicle regardless of how you commute.

I abhor the thoughts of making existing roads toll roads. To me it is just another skirmish in the war against the car. The people who drive already pay an asinine amount for the "privilege" and should not be charged more. I believe that drivers/riders actually pay their own way.

It's not an issue of "punishing" the electorate - it's more about making making the costs of various infrastructure abundantly clear. Highways are expensive to build and maintain. Tolls are a viable way to put the costs of that particular infrastructure directly at the feet of those whose choices make construction of that infrastructure necessary, and they force the electorate to choose between paying their way or making alternate choices.

I agree that mass transit should be more user-friendly and efficient, but I don't think that is necessarily the same as "cheap". It should be cheaper than running a personal vehicle though.

Right now the cost to an individual to run a personal vehicle over long commuting distances does not really reflect the real costs of the infrastructure required. The short-commute drivers and even non-driving taxpayers are subsidizing the long distance commuters. Toll highways would remove some of that subsidy and transfer more of the real costs upon those who use the highways most. That's one reason why mass transit doesn't "appear" to offer sufficient savings compared to just riding alone in a car on the highway or through suburbia.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

flying won't become something that everyone does, even if we get around the piloting issues (most people have problems thinking in 2d never mind 3d) as the energy requirements to fly are just too high.

as for stealing from the etr... i look at it as slightly worse than downloading music.

 

[ike]

Various places over the years, but a reasonably concise summary can be found at http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/2228 .

Thanks for telling me about that website. It is very interesting but there are enough inaccuracies in their report to cast doubt on the entire thing. But lets say they are right about there being a clause that limits price hikes to inflation plus 2%. According to them tolls were 7cents/km in 1999. Do the math (assuming inflation is 3%), and you will discover that with 5% compounded annually the tolls should be just under 13 cents/km now. Current tolls are now almost 23cents/km for that same time of day period. One would think that if the original agreement was as they stated, the government would be able to step in and enforce that... well, they tried, and they cannot, because there is no such clause in the 99 year lease agreement. Another little inaccuracy was their statement that Ontario had never had toll roads, but it wasnt all that long ago that people had to pay to use the Skyway Bridge over the Burlington bay . So, all in all, I dont think this source is very credible.

Now, back to the real world of the 407 - In addition to their outrageous rate increases, the "No transponder fees" ( aka video toll charge) have almost tripled, transponder lease rates have almost doubled, and to ice the cake, they now charge everyone 50 cents every time they enter onto the highway. I imagine they would charge you for the air you breathe while using their highway if they could figure out how to do it.

It is no wonder that people feel justified in trying to use the 407 for free. The citizens of Ontario were ripped off by the sale, and continue to be ripped off by their astronomical fees. Of course, this in no way justifies trying to steal use of the 407. I still maintain that if you don't want to pay for it, then don't use it.

 

[backtobikes]

I've heard that the 407 watches for patterns. If for example a vehicle with blanked out plates gets on the road at a consistent time, they'll have a cop waiting after a few times. Bottom line... if you use any blanking solution more than a handful of times, you'll get caught. Good topic for a laugh, but not worth it.

 

[caboose56]

And you can take I-90 from Buffalo to Syracuse (about 200km) for $7. Hmmmm

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