How to go from a 250 to a 600?

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BdaGolfer

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There are a million posts all over the interwebs advising new riders to stay away from the 600's at first, start on a 250 and move up if & when they are ready, which is all sound advice, and I happen to agree with it, which is why I currently have a Ninja 250 in the garage. It is a great bike to learn on, very forgiving of the clumsy mistakes newbies make with throttle control, braking, body position etc. but still allows you to get the feel for how to ride.

The thing I don't see much on is how, once you feel you have reached the stage where you can move to a 600, how to go about doing it. Having test ridden a couple of CBR's I know that the size and weight is not an issue, but the torque, acceleration, seating position & braking power are. While every clutch is going to be different, the engine revs a lot more freely on a 6, making throttle control more important - not like a 250 where the throttle is at times more like an on/off switch.

How does one go about preparing to move to a 600? What skills carry over, and what ones only start coming into play with the bigger engine? All tips, advice and resources appreciated.

Thx

Alan

P.S. This should not be a discussion about whether or not someone should stay on a 250, but how best to safely transition to a 600 (or larger) bike. :)
 
All learned skills will carry over, I have never been on a 250, as I started out on a 600 and the only bike I had ridden before that was my friends 125 dirtbike in the woods for about 15mins about 12yrs earlier.
I have always been a fast learner with anything on wheels and knew I would not push myself past my limits till I was ready.
All I will say is when you know your ready to upgrade and can push your bike close to its limits when needed, If you feel confident and are willing to not let your ego get the best of you then go for it. Don't let anyone talk you out of what you want just because they didn't do it that way.
 
Like the person above said if you know the basics of operating a bike,which you do, no matter what bike you sit on u will know how to ride it. Just remember steady and smoooooooooooth throttle control.

Started on a 250 then half way into my first season I tried a 600 on an empty road in the boonies somehwere then continued to the main roads and then the highway, a bit after that tried a 1000 (also on a backroad) and the only difference was the acceleration and speed. I did rip the 1k though lol just for a second.

DOnt over think anything and trust and encourage yourself. Hope that helps.
 
The main issue with starting on a 600 without any experience is that it requires a degree of subtlety with the controls that is not often there with a new rider. So every mistake is amplified and harder to recover from, it is much easier once you have committed enough of motorcycling to muscle memory. Once that is accomplished there is more brain power available to devote to refining your skill and recovering form any mis-cue.

You didn't say how long you have been riding, but if you are at the point where the mechanics of motorcycling are happening as a matter of course in your travels, and you are able to process the other input related to riding safely simultaneously, then I would say you are more than ready. On the other hand, if you are still having to think about the mechanics of riding, especially when a little pressured by the situation at hand, then I'd say wait a little longer to let muscle memory and situational calm build. Having said all that, remember that there is a point where you have prepared and you just have to do something in order to be able to do it, your 250 won't just morph into a 600 :)

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the replies. For my riding experience, I started on a 125 in Dublin, rode that for 18 months or so through city traffic (which anyone who has been to an older European city can tell you can be an adventure!) and on country roads, probably putting about 6,000 miles on it. Rode a 90cc scooter in Bermuda for 4½ years from 1999-2003, and then got the 250 on the road in April of this year. Due to the wet spring and a relocation I only have 1,600km on it so far, but hoping to get over 3,000 by the end of the season.

I am comfortable on the bike, in traffic or by myself, but am learning more about performance riding techniques, and plan on doing some advanced courses and track stuff next spring. The key things I am working on now are smoother throttle and clutch control (the subtlety), and body position during cornering, both to help with maximizing traction.

I am still trying to decide which bike would be the best move. Most of my rides could be 3-4 hours to and from the mountains, with some twisties in there, so sporty but comfortable would be good. On the other hand the Daytona 675 is just screaming my name, and is frickin' gorgeous! Either way, by April I plan on being on something a bit bigger, so any other info is good.

Alan
 
I agree that the Daytona 675 is gorgeous! Thinking about it for my next bike, just unsure of what parts support is like.
 
the question is how to go from a 250 to a 600.

3 WAYS,

Sell 250 BUY 600
BUY 600 SELL 250
KEEP 250 BUY 600

They both need tires and maintenance, brand depending could cost you more.
Insurance is the only real issue. Another consideration that i experienced is engine style Inline 4 vs V twin, major difference.
A lot of good resources on here to explain and help you determine. Make no mistake there is a big difference even though the sticker says 600.
 
I road a Ninja 250 for three years and moved up to a CBR600 this year. The main things I noticed were:

1. Way more power. For commuting around the city, I rarely get out of second gear. On the expressways, often its fourth. On the ninja, I used all the gears most of the time.
2. Way faster throttle response. Make a mistake on the ninja and it's no big deal. Accidentally crack the throttle open on the CBR and you can find yourself at 9000 rpm.
3. More aggressive riding position. More weight on the wrists and a tendency (at least for me) to lock my arms, so you have to get used to gripping more with your knees to relieve some pressure.
4. Turns in quicker. This is one thing I found made the CBR easier to ride than the ninja.

Despite being vertically-challenged, I've been pleasantly surprised that I haven't really noticed the difference in seat height. I started on the CBR the same way as with the ninja a few years earlier: got familiar with the bike during low traffic times before venturing into peak GTA insanity. It took a couple months of riding before I reached the same comfort level on the CBR as I had on the ninja, but there's no looking back now. Good luck!
 
sounds like your a capable operator and would have no problem on a 600. I went from a 50hp '03 ninja 500 to a 150+ hp '08 cbr 1000 after my first few years. Big jump, but if you have the basics of smooth operating its not bad. Just start easy. The mid-range is potent and unforgiving to mistakes, 1mm of throttle movement is the difference between 60 and 80 kph. Its actually a fairly easy bike to ride smooth if you have the right mindset.

The best way to learn how to be smooth? take it to the track. I started at the track on my 500 doing track days. Your riding skill will improve 5 fold in the first 2 track days as you explore the limits of your machine. You learn to be smooth really fast and not to panic on lock ups, slides, too hot in a corner, brake fade, getting stuffed in a corner (not tolerated, but happens from time to time) etc. You'll notice an instant improvement in your street riding.
 
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I had some experience riding a friend's 125 until I Got my own bike (a 600). The throttle control took a little getting used to, but I think the biggest thing that made me comfortable on it was clutch control.
 
Geeser said:
I road a Ninja 250 for three years and moved up to a CBR600 this year. The main things I noticed were:

1. Way more power. For commuting around the city, I rarely get out of second gear. On the expressways, often its fourth. On the ninja, I used all the gears most of the time.
2. Way faster throttle response. Make a mistake on the ninja and it's no big deal. Accidentally crack the throttle open on the CBR and you can find yourself at 9000 rpm.
3. More aggressive riding position. More weight on the wrists and a tendency (at least for me) to lock my arms, so you have to get used to gripping more with your knees to relieve some pressure.
4. Turns in quicker. This is one thing I found made the CBR easier to ride than the ninja.

Despite being vertically-challenged, I've been pleasantly surprised that I haven't really noticed the difference in seat height. I started on the CBR the same way as with the ninja a few years earlier: got familiar with the bike during low traffic times before venturing into peak GTA insanity. It took a couple months of riding before I reached the same comfort level on the CBR as I had on the ninja, but there's no looking back now. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks Geeser - good info there, and your experience reflects my thoughts on what the transition would be like. I plan on easing into things, and smooth is definately the buzzword!

Alan
 
smergy said:
sounds like your a capable operator and would have no problem on a 600. I went from a 50hp '03 ninja 500 to a 150+ hp '08 cbr 1000 after my first few years. Big jump, but if you have the basics of smooth operating its not bad. Just start easy. The mid-range is potent and unforgiving to mistakes, 1mm of throttle movement is the difference between 60 and 80 kph. Its actually a fairly easy bike to ride smooth if you have the right mindset.

The best way to learn how to be smooth? take it to the track. I started at the track on my 500 doing track days. Your riding skill will improve 5 fold in the first 2 track days as you explore the limits of your machine. You learn to be smooth really fast and not to panic on lock ups, slides, too hot in a corner, brake fade, getting stuffed in a corner (not tolerated, but happens from time to time) etc. You'll notice an instant improvement in your street riding.
Click to expand...

I plan on doing some track days, although the future of the racetrack here is in doubt. Hopefully something gets sorted out, as I would hate to have to go to Edmonton just to hit the track.

Alan
 
So I guess I should have called this thread "how to go from a 250 to a 750"! Got a good deal on a really clean K5 GSX-R750, which I will be picking up on Saturday. My mileage on the 250 got up to 2,700, so it's a bit earlier than planned, and a bit bigger than planned, but I like having more midrange to work with, the power is not that much above a new 600, and it was less than half the price of a new 675.

I'll update the thread with my experiences as I get some miles on the 750, so I can answer my own question, and it may help some others in the future.

Alan
 
I rode a Ninja500 and a DR200 for the first two summers (barely touched the DR200, actually). Bought a 600RR the beginning of the third summer. My b/f at the time took the bike to a large, empty government parking lot for me where I rode it around for all of 15 minutes and, with a massive grin on my face, told him I'd be taking it home myself. :D

I can't speak for other 600cc SS bikes, but I found the throttle/power on the CBR really smooth. And after two summers on a bike with the same amount of weight, but half the HP and a more relaxed seating position, about the only things that differed for me were the seat height, bar positioning and ridiculous amount of braking power that I needed to get used to.

Whatever you buy, take it somewhere large and devoid of traffic to get used to it. I don't care if you've been riding a smaller bike for 5 years. I still think it's important to do that before venturing out into traffic.
 
So I picked up the bike this morning, and rode it 30km home from NE Calgary to SW in Saturday morning traffic. I found it very easy to ride, as long as I was smooth with both hands. The bike is eager to get the revs up, and it doesn't take much provocation to jump a couple thousand rpms. The power delivery is awesome, so smooth and consistent, no discernible flat spots. I never got over 90kph on the ride home, so I never got higher than 3rd gear, or 6k rpm - there was just no need. The bike sounds great too, and starts to growl as you near 6000rpm - an indication of what lies above.

Went for a 150km ride this afternoon along two of my favorite local roads, and favoured by every other biker in Calgary judging by the number of bikes I passed on the way. The roads are classed as secondary roads, but have a 100kph speed limit, good visibility and some sweeping 78-85kph curves and overall a good surface. Much of the ride was in 3rd gear, which is good for 50kph and up. At one stage I did a 3rd gear roll-on as I passed my wife, and went from 100kph to just under 140 very quickly, but the revs only went from ~7k to ~9k. I can't imagine going to the 14k redline.

Overall very impressed with the bike, it's easy enough to ride at traffic speed, as long as you have the requisite hand control. The riding position is obviously more aggressive than the 250, so will take sometime to get used to. The front suspension felt a bit soft on some corners, so I may look at that after the next ride, and I think some StompGrips will help with keeping the weight off the wrists, but otherwise I like it!

Alan
 
BdaGolfer said:
So I picked up the bike this morning, and rode it 30km home from NE Calgary to SW in Saturday morning traffic. I found it very easy to ride, as long as I was smooth with both hands. The bike is eager to get the revs up, and it doesn't take much provocation to jump a couple thousand rpms. The power delivery is awesome, so smooth and consistent, no discernible flat spots. I never got over 90kph on the ride home, so I never got higher than 3rd gear, or 6k rpm - there was just no need. The bike sounds great too, and starts to growl as you near 6000rpm - an indication of what lies above.

Went for a 150km ride this afternoon along two of my favorite local roads, and favoured by every other biker in Calgary judging by the number of bikes I passed on the way. The roads are classed as secondary roads, but have a 100kph speed limit, good visibility and some sweeping 78-85kph curves and overall a good surface. Much of the ride was in 3rd gear, which is good for 50kph and up. At one stage I did a 3rd gear roll-on as I passed my wife, and went from 100kph to just under 140 very quickly, but the revs only went from ~7k to ~9k. I can't imagine going to the 14k redline.

Overall very impressed with the bike, it's easy enough to ride at traffic speed, as long as you have the requisite hand control. The riding position is obviously more aggressive than the 250, so will take sometime to get used to. The front suspension felt a bit soft on some corners, so I may look at that after the next ride, and I think some StompGrips will help with keeping the weight off the wrists, but otherwise I like it!

Alan
Click to expand...

The danger period for a typical rider peaks in the third year when he/she gets cocky and gradually tapers off after that.
 
Baggsy said:
The danger period for a typical rider peaks in the third year when he/she gets cocky and gradually tapers off after that.
Click to expand...

So I've got 2 more years before I have to worry about crashing? :-)

Kidding, I've heard that factoid from other sources (even though insurance reports don't seem to support it, but I'm sure there's other factors to that as well). I will be using the remainder of this season to get familiar with the bike at lower speeds, getting to know how it responds to various requests and working on braking in particular. I'm more interested in improving my skills than setting land speed records, so hopefully I can replace the cocky stage with the confident stage.

Alan
 
Baggsy said:
The danger period for a typical rider peaks in the third year when he/she gets cocky and gradually tapers off after that.
Click to expand...

I'm curious why people measure in years? Some people do 3000km a year others 12000km. Seems like a bad measurement...no offence to the poster. Just wonder what the average year of riding is?
 
I believe the data comes from insurance files, which means that those who kept riding into their 3rd year were more inclined to take a tumble. I've seen other data which shows that the actual # of crashes is highest for 1st year riders. It could all be part of an insurance industry scheme to keep 1st year rates high, and bump in the 3rd year, who kows.

I would guess the average rider does less than 2k per year, judging by the low mileage bikes available used, but even that can vary between highway and twisties, both of which offer different learning elements. What I take from the statement is to not get cocky and/or ride above your abilities, which is good advice at any level of experience, though it begs the question as to how you determine your abilities....

Alan
 
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