A friend of mine is pretty crazy into first aid, right now he holds a certification higher then the ones firefighters are given. He was telling me the other day how they get special training in dealing with a downed motorcyclists, dealing with removing the helmet off of a rider with a potential spinal. It's a two man job, and seems fairly complicated. After hearing that, I'd close off the area, get 911 on the phone, and hope they get there fast. You can do a lot of damage if you don't know what you're doing around a spinal victim...
How to react to a fallen biker
- Thread starter DOHC1
- Start date
All good points however. If someone had a probable spinal and Helmet and is in imediate danger (Bike/Car on fire) then the imediate danger can overide it this includes Lack of breathing major bleeds. Its always a judgement call and a difficult one to make.
Thats why i will be happy when the new CPR standards for the Genrall public get changed to just chest compressions.
OpenGambit
Banned
My certification is long expired and I haven't lifeguarded in a long time.
But my understanding is that the current knowledge says that just doing 100 chest compressions straight up is really more effective than all that breathing/pausing/check airway stuff we used to learn?
Can you verify?
But my understanding is that the current knowledge says that just doing 100 chest compressions straight up is really more effective than all that breathing/pausing/check airway stuff we used to learn?
Can you verify?
Don’t know if its more affective per say but its easier to do the chest compressions properly and be affective than doing the rescue breathing. If you have access to additional equipment such as Air Ways, Oxygen and BVM's then its not as effective. If you are very good and well trained in CPR I would also say its probably more effective. But for joe public who does not use it or train of it regularly the chest compression are probably easier to be effective at.
If that makes sense?
slowbird
Well-known member
I heard that too, somewhere.
OpenGambit
Banned
Yeah. I mean if I were put in that situation today I would probably go with just straight chest compressions. I mean I am not up to date enough on it and I am rusty. But I know i bascially cant' go wrong with chest compressions =D
Call your local St John Ambulance office they have public CPR courses and Basic first aid.
If you want something a bit more advanced they offer advanced medical first response courses that teach you how to use all the neat toys like airways and collars but for most people the basic first aid course is enough. If you have specific questions with regards to motorcycle incidents you can always ask you instructor. Some will be more knowledgeable than others on the topic. I don’t think there is really anything offered that specifically targets Bike accidents at least that’s public.
If you want something a bit more advanced they offer advanced medical first response courses that teach you how to use all the neat toys like airways and collars but for most people the basic first aid course is enough. If you have specific questions with regards to motorcycle incidents you can always ask you instructor. Some will be more knowledgeable than others on the topic. I don’t think there is really anything offered that specifically targets Bike accidents at least that’s public.
Please state which training he was given ?
To have a certification higher than most fire fighters, he would have to be a level 2 or 3 medic.
Yup thats what i would do i hope anyway
Thats okay. Most full time guys are higher than that certification.
A few have mentioned chest compressions only. I do not have any 'field' experience, just some schooling and having worked in hospital emergency rooms in the past where there is obviously much more equipment at our disposal.
My understanding is that hands-only CPR is intended for those NOT trained in CPR, and only in the case of a witnessed cardiac arrest. Under these circumstances it is easier just to do chest compressions and not worry too much about checking for breathing and pulses.
The rationale is that sudden cardiac arrest stops blood flow immediately, and the brain will die in a matter minutes. However since the person was breathing just before, there is oxygen in the bloodstream, and continuous compressions will allow it to get to the brain. That's why for example korean women pearl divers (I happen to have met one in the past) can hold their breath for longer than 5 minutes without any brain damage.
However, its complicated since not all cardiac arrest, especially in the case of motorcycle trauma is due to a diseased heart. For example if the rider vomited and aspirated, the respiratory arrest could have led to cardiac arrest and in that case breathing may be much more important.
Some good advice by the previous posters, but I think it is important to remember that although the good samaritan will protect us, first responder training guidelines are changing. I don't know what the most recent updates are, but this thread has convinced me that I should take a refresher course in the near future.
My understanding is that hands-only CPR is intended for those NOT trained in CPR, and only in the case of a witnessed cardiac arrest. Under these circumstances it is easier just to do chest compressions and not worry too much about checking for breathing and pulses.
The rationale is that sudden cardiac arrest stops blood flow immediately, and the brain will die in a matter minutes. However since the person was breathing just before, there is oxygen in the bloodstream, and continuous compressions will allow it to get to the brain. That's why for example korean women pearl divers (I happen to have met one in the past) can hold their breath for longer than 5 minutes without any brain damage.
However, its complicated since not all cardiac arrest, especially in the case of motorcycle trauma is due to a diseased heart. For example if the rider vomited and aspirated, the respiratory arrest could have led to cardiac arrest and in that case breathing may be much more important.
Some good advice by the previous posters, but I think it is important to remember that although the good samaritan will protect us, first responder training guidelines are changing. I don't know what the most recent updates are, but this thread has convinced me that I should take a refresher course in the near future.
Suzuki I certainly hope the St. John's first aid courses are more robust then they were 15 years ago when I taught / examined both first aid and CPR. We could pretty much guarantee a very high failure rate for anyone who had St. John's and took our courses. It came across to us as they were a certification mill, give them your money, do some classes and get a certificate.
A couple of times when I had to deal with serious injuries (flail chest etc.) a responder offered to assist and when they told me they were trained by St. John's, I declined the assistance and waited for an EMT/ EMT-P. It was pretty much a general rule with us.
A couple of times when I had to deal with serious injuries (flail chest etc.) a responder offered to assist and when they told me they were trained by St. John's, I declined the assistance and waited for an EMT/ EMT-P. It was pretty much a general rule with us.
BimmerMike
Well-known member
I recently was on a ride where one of our riders had an incident and dislocated his shoulder. When we called 911 and they asked for our location we couldn't give it to them, we had been at the back of a group ride going thru many twists and turns, none of us knew the area. My Iphone was not getting a good enough signal to display the map. Luckily the group leaders turned back and knew exactly where we were.
I am planning to carry a GPS in my tank bag from now on.
I am planning to carry a GPS in my tank bag from now on.
Get training!
911 isn't always avail.. and I am not talking James Bay or somewhere remote. Cambridge ontario... 1km from a firehall. ... I got put on hold on 911..then the recording,, your call is in priority sequence.... then the dispatch said,, oh, darn.. ah,, we are pretty busy? i said,,, vital signs absent... so.. get me some help asap... it took 4 min for police,,useless..9min for fire,, very good.. and 23min for paramedic team .. Charlies Angels.. they were unbelievable pro's ... and repeated all fire dept ,, and added some more to stablize before transport..
Get training!
I have been at hwy 6 and Carlisle Rd..... 25min responce time.... from Guelph, or from Hamilton, or From Cambridge,, do you know how long 10 min is doing cpr ??
Get training!
I know a guy who worked for 50min doing CPR on his friend.. some of you will know the area,, Calaboogie or somewhere like that.. a group of riders,, leader went down... one guy in the group had any idea of first aid
Get training!
oh,, and to add.. I have been taken to Emerg by amb. and been told ,, sorry,,we're closed ! Emerg has no beds!
and I have seen people who grabbed the victim, threw them in a car,, RACED to a local hospital,, only to find stuff like,, emerg closed,,, emerg doesn't do burn trauma.. emerg doesn't do heart... etc etc. If they had JUST CALLED 911... dispatch would send AIR AMB ... or fire,, or paramedics to scene... paramedics in the ambulance are just as good as a emergency room... for a lot of things.
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Excellent post. Majority of the time an ambulance is on its way well before the phone call ends. And if you have NO training at all, the call taker will find out what they need to know, and also give step by step instructions if anything needs to be done (mainly CPR, they are trained to tell someone how to do CPR over the phone)
Agreed! Again, if you have called 911, or someone with you has, instruction will be coming for how to do CPR.
The new stuff basically is trying to reduce any interruption in CPR. Blood needs to be circulating ASAP. No pulse check for people who are not properly trained = waste of time. Look at it this way instead, if they are not breathing, start CPR (If they have a heart beat but not breathing, their heart will stop soon anyways)
Search ITLS. It is offered by Toronto EMS. It is an advanced course, I am not sure if they will question why you are taking it (courses fill up fast, and it is designed for medical personnel). It might be a bit overkill though. They talk about a lot of stuff that most people are expected to know already (that should have been learned in school as Paramedic, nurse or doctor). So unless you know your medical terminology and are prepared to take in a lot of information, it might not be worth the time or money. I took it, and it basically took what I learned about trauma in school and condensed it into a weekend.
