Petition to ban commercial vehicles from US129 (Deals Gap)

honduhmatic said:
Not if it's hidden around a rock outcrop around 90° corner.

Do you think a trucker really wants to drive this? Do you think he/she'd mind going 10 miles down to the next road? Think this would save them time or be good for their brakes, clutch, tires, ...?

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a few of those turns look like hair pins.... how well do trucks do hair pin turns?
 
Even if it's a bit more (it looked like 10 miles on Google maps, could be off?), is there a time savings if they creep through Tail of the Dragon, at 5 mph? If you compute that there's a fuel savings, or a time savings... both of which are doubtful...

And if there were, would that economic boon to trucking offset the commercial revenue of catering to a top 3 motorcycle destination in North America for business?

BTW, I haven't even been there. I'm closing my eyes and picturing some of the roads back home in Alberta - the service road from Canmore to Peter Lougheed Park. But I hope to get to Tail of the Dragon, and doubt that a Mac Truck crossing the yellow line helps the experience.
 
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Why is everyone still arguing with this guy?

turbodish is not, will not and can not be swayed by your arguments. He sees 95% of this forum as sociopaths, irresponsible children on racing machines terrorizing the population on public roads. Any arguments coming from this demographic are merely rationalizations to defend their criminal behaviour, any contention they have with the law (and any attempt to have an impact on it) is somehow related to their desire to limit their legal liability.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Why is everyone still arguing with this guy?

turbodish is not, will not and can not be swayed by your arguments. He sees 95% of this forum as sociopaths, irresponsible children on racing machines terrorizing the population on public roads. Any arguments coming from this demographic are merely rationalizations to defend their criminal behaviour, any contention they have with the law (and any attempt to have an impact on it) is somehow related to their desire to limit their legal liability.
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That's ok, many of us see him as a psychopath who gets morbid joy out of misfortune happening to riders.
 
honduhmatic said:
Even if it's a bit more (it looked like 10 miles on Google maps, could be off?), is there a time savings if they creep through Forks at 5 mph?

And if there were, would that economic boon to trucking offset the commercial revenue of catering to a top 3 motorcycle destination in North America for business?
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With the Forks it's not even a question of option given the tightness of the hairpin and the grade drop-off there. Even if the truck could make the swing around the end of the (now crumpled) inside guard rail (and a 53 footer couldn't), the landing gear on the trailer would probably hang up when the tractor hits the drop-off. Even shorter tour buses hang up on that drop-off.

With US129, the alternate routes for trucks aren't all that attractive.
Why are trucks even allowed on the Dragon?
US 129 is a Federal Highway . Unless it is absolutely impossible for large trucks to make the corners the authorities are hesitant to restrict such traffic. The nearest routes over the mountains are at some distance. I-40 is 50 miles to the north and US 64 is 40 miles to the south. Both are prone to closings because of rock slides. In late 2009 both were closed at the same time for several months. Truck traffic is not allowed over US 441 through the Great Smoky Mountain National Park.We do see a few trucks come over the Cherohala Skyway, but since on a map it is only a State Route, it is not usually considered by truckers.
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It's kind of fascinating. Turbodish has to know that he's completely unpopular, but he actively posts here anyways and preaches his convictions.

And arguing's a skill. One gets rusty over time. I have to brush up for my co-workers and in-laws :D
 
CruisnGrrl said:
That's ok, many of us see him as a psychopath who gets morbid joy out of misfortune happening to riders.
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I don't get any morbid joy watching people who shoot themselves in their own feet, not even riders. It just leaves me shaking my head at the stupidity of it all.
 
This thread is awful. I am going to think of turbovision every time I turn a blind corner now.
 
turbodish said:
With the Forks it's not even a question of option given the tightness of the hairpin and the grade drop-off there. Even if the truck could make the swing around the end of the (now crumpled) inside guard rail (and a 53 footer couldn't), the landing gear on the trailer would probably hang up when the tractor hits the drop-off. Even shorter tour buses hang up on that drop-off.

With US129, the alternate routes for trucks aren't all that attractive.
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Well then, close it if there's no rock slide, and re-open it if there is one. Usually rock slide season coincides with major precipitation, where the tail of the dragon wouldn't attract its riders.

Thinking more about the forks of the credit, the 'turn back NOW' signs for commercial traffic and buses are right off of Highway 10. A truck could, in theory, make it to the provincial park turnoff. I suspect they're encouraged to turn right around because they'd be a nuisance to residents and oncoming traffic by proceeding. Thus, they're discouraged from going any farther.

Back to the dragon, 50 miles at 50 miles per hour is more appealing to a trucker than 15 miles at 5 miles per hour. Much more appealing. Plus, I don't see a major thriving metropolis on either side of the road.
 
honduhmatic said:
Back to the dragon, 50 miles at 50 miles per hour is more appealing to a trucker than 15 miles at 5 miles per hour. Much more appealing. Plus, I don't see a major thriving metropolis on either side of the road.
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Well, maybe. I-40 is 50 miles to the north, but where do you go from there? Ditto I-64 to the south. It depends on your ultimate destination.

Here's the link to google maps showing the short route. Let's say yo're just going to the bottom of the route. Go ahead an see if you can plot a reasonable alternate, and then get back with the total distance of that alternate. http://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=US...Y1xHgIdNmP--g;FUwwHQIdnnv_-g&mra=mrv&t=h&z=11
 
Still doesn't solve the road isn't safe for trucks... Why keep arguing? You know your wrong. Your just stubborn. Maybe ask your trucking instructors, and your insurance company, I don't think they would be siding with your views. I have a feeling you already signed anyway, if not what sort of biker would you be?

Please Sign! 94 signatures to go!
http://www.change.org/petitions/ikes...rcial-vehicles
 
cnr1993 said:
Still doesn't solve the road isn't safe for trucks... Why keep arguing? You know your wrong. Your just stubborn. Maybe ask your trucking instructors, and your insurance company, I don't think they would be siding with your views. I have a feeling you already signed anyway, if not what sort of biker would you be?

Please Sign! 94 signatures to go!
http://www.change.org/petitions/ikes...rcial-vehicles
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he's not... his vehicles use car tires...
 
cnr1993 said:
Still doesn't solve the road isn't safe for trucks... Why keep arguing? You know your wrong. Your just stubborn. Maybe ask your trucking instructors, and your insurance company, I don't think they would be siding with your views. I have a feeling you already signed anyway, if not what sort of biker would you be?
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The petition is a bit of a fraud. It implies that the trucks are responsible for
vehicles being ran off the road, wrecks, and fatalities.
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That's severely overstating the case. Even the Tail of the Dragon web site is more honest in their appraisal of where the problems lie.
Is there a death every week?
No. The fatality rate has averaged under two deaths a year for the past 10 years. Most of these have been the result of speed, poor bike handling skills and over-braking.
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Not a word about trucks being the great killer in that line.

What about the trucks? The pictures of trucks make it look too dangerous to ride.
Truck traffic has declined over the past few years. By publicizing the problems they encounter and contacting some of the major transport companies we have managed to greatly reduce the number of semis on the Dragon. We rarely see semis on the weekends and perhaps an average of one or two pass over the Dragon on weekdays. Your best defense is to stay alert, keep your speeds reasonable, stop short of the corner the truck is coming through and pull over as far as you can in a straight section to let them by. Many of the vehicle vs. truck accidents we have seen over the years could have been avoided using these defensive measures.
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Stay alert. Keep speeds reasonable. Pull over and let them by. Let them by. In other words, pay attention and be prepared, as any competently responsible rider should be regardless of where they are riding. Complaining about trucks being the great killer there is a red herring. The Gap may be a fun ride, but it's not a race track with marshals and one way traffic even though many like to ride it that way.
 
cnr1993 said:
One death is to many.
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On that I do not disagree.

However, where does the problem really lie....

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Re: Motorcycle driver dies on way to hospital after crash along "The Dragon"
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 08:36:28 AM »

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Been riding that road many, many years... I've seen a few 'big rigs' on it a few times, and in some of those switchbacks they do take 'all' of the road to get around. Mostly, however, I've seen cars, RVs and pick-ups, many pulling trailers (campers, boats, utility, etc.) - all moving slowly compared to us bikers. All of us two-wheelers were there for the same reason, and all of us took chances to 'enhance the experience'... a very toxic mixture.

'Back in the day' when I first stood beside the 'Tree Of Shame' and pondered its implications, there was a fatality on the Dragon every three or four years... nowadays there are three or four fatalities every year. The truck traffic seems to me to have dimenished a bit, but other traffic has only increased.

At the station I see bike tags from all over North America... Canada and western states, as well as New England and the midwest, and countless ones from dear ol' Dixie... I've listened to stories from wide-eyed riders as they eagerly told of their 'personal best' times, of scraping various parts of their bikes in curves, of near misses, and some of actual crashes they surivied. Heck, I've even participated in some of those conversations myself!

I keep expecting some leagal entity to really crack down on that stretch, and while there is a more promenient LEO presence the last few years, the tragic stories continue... the one above being the latest I've heard. I ride this great road very seldom any more... and usually only on weekdays not near holidays or other times when the traffic might be heavy and the enthuiasts 'screamin' ' through them hills... it's just to dangerous for me sometimes...

Not sure how much blame for all of that falls on the 'other vehicle' drivers. It seems to me that those of us who travel far to test our limits and push out boundaries must figure into that equation some way or other... Reckon?

DDT[/TD]
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