Petition to ban commercial vehicles from US129 (Deals Gap)

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Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Turbodish has never been there, knows not what he is talking about, and is spouting nonsense. I can tell (and so can everyone else). In contrary, I've been there many times.

Regarding motorcycles that are not capable of staying in their own lane on that road ... YES, it is a problem, but it is an operator problem - and one that should be equally dealt with by the local authorities. Cross the center line ... get a ticket.

Competent motorcycle (and car and light truck) operators will have absolutely no problem with that. (I don't have a problem with it.) In the case of a tractor-trailer combination ... they're going to get 318 tickets, one for each corner, no matter what they try, because it is physically impossible for such a vehicle to stay in their own lane. It is only common sense that such vehicles should not be allowed on that road except via special permits involving a lead and chase vehicle. (This is already unofficially done today, whenever someone spots a tractor-trailer about to go through ... but if there is no one to spot it, or if it passes by in the other direction and one cannot get ahead of it, it doesn't happen.)
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Wingboy said:
Slightly off topic.I've never been a fan of protests or petitions and this one is no different.I think this petition could be doomed because of the signatures from foreigners.Thoughts?
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It is indicative of the relatively large amount of income that tourists bring to the area. The locals (including the politicians) are well aware of this ...
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Brian P said:
Turbodish has never been there, knows not what he is talking about, and is spouting nonsense. I can tell (and so can everyone else). In contrary, I've been there many times.
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You don't know where I have or haven't been.

Would you disagree with this?
Now that we have your attention, let us tell you how to avoid running headlong into or under one of these cycle eaters. Even at speed you should be able to avoid these behemoths if you are (1) paying attention, (2) are experienced enough to control your braking, and (3) keep a cool head and react under pressure.
Foremost you need to watch ahead for any indication that one of these guys is coming. You can see through some of the curves with your peripheral vision. Even if you don't see the truck because of a blind corner you will likely see it soon enough to have time to stop before you get to it (here is the cool head and controlled braking), or you will not see the truck until late in the corner and have enough room to dive for the white line and avoid it before it steals your lane.
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Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Traffic laws are not based on whether the driver is experienced, or can keep a cool head and react under pressure.

All you are really saying is that there isn't an accident every single time that a truck goes on the road. I don't know how you can possibily equate this situation to the ones in the city.

A bunch of people are trying to pass a law, thats democracy, there is nothing making you sign it.
 
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Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Brian P said:
Turbodish has never been there, knows not what he is talking about, and is spouting nonsense. I can tell (and so can everyone else). In contrary, I've been there many times.
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If the sky is blue turbo will use his turbofacts, turbostats and turbonmics to argue that really the sky is bleeding red.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

OpenGambit said:
A bunch of people are trying to pass a law, thats democracy, there is nothing making you sign it.
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I'm not saying don't sign it. The fundamental basis of democracy is that all people should have a say. I'm just having a say. You don't have to agree with it.

OpenGambit said:
Traffic laws are not based on whether the driver is experienced, or can keep a cool head and react under pressure.
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No? Ok. However, from the words of the very locals:
Even at speed you should be able to avoid these behemoths if you are (1) paying attention, (2) are experienced enough to control your braking, and (3) keep a cool head and react under pressure.
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Even at speed? How about if you're not at speed? Would that make it easier? If you're not experienced, can't keep a cool head, or can't react under pressure, should you be on the road at all, let alone "even at speed"? Or should you at least slow down to a speed where you are able to manage potential hazards (truck or otherwise) that may appear in front of you? This gets back to rider behaviour on the road.

The road is not suitable for big trucks, but it's not illegal either. The trucks are very slow and unwieldy, and they occasionally get stuck in the most inconvenient places. That slowness makes them more inconvenient than unsafe to the free two-way movement of other traffic. That's one issue.

The issue of safety to riders is a separate issue. Most rider-downs there have nothing to do with trucks or even smaller 4-wheelers. If the trucks go away, will the Tree of Shame suddenly wilt and die? I don't think so. That road doesn't need any help at all from big trucks to take out riders.
[video=youtube;Usw-bQR3nAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usw-bQR3nAQ[/video]
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
Obviously you can't. Given the various videos I've seen and first hand accounts I've heard though, I have no desire to ride The Dragon. I've been through the area more times than I can count, on my way south, and have never bothered. I like my other Tennessee and Alabama roads.

As I said, banning oversized vehicles is a no brainer. If a vehicle is physically incapable of properly navigating a road, then it shouldn't be permitted on it. This should be by vehicle length, not ownership.
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Ok cool, I thought you were arguing against it lol.

I really don't see how anyone (especially a rider) can justify a truck taking this road **cough* turbodish *cough**, it is totally illogical to argue that it is safe and responsible. It is your duty as the operator of any vehicle to maintain control of that vehicle and not put other peoples safety at risk! Plain and simple, now sign the ****ing petition!!!!
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
I'm not saying don't sign it. The fundamental basis of democracy is that all people should have a say. I'm just having a say. You don't have to agree with it.



No? Ok. However, from the words of the very locals:

Even at speed? How about if you're not at speed? Would that make it easier? If you're not experienced, can't keep a cool head, or can't react under pressure, should you be on the road at all, let alone "even at speed"? Or should you at least slow down to a speed where you are able to manage potential hazards (truck or otherwise) that may appear in front of you? This gets back to rider behaviour on the road.

The road is not suitable for big trucks, but it's not illegal either. The trucks are very slow and unweildy, and they occasionally get stuck in the most inconvenient places. That makes them more inconvenient than unsafe to the free two-way movement of other traffic. That's one issue.

The issue of safety to riders is a separate issue. If the trucks go away, will the Tree of Shame suddenly wilt and die? I don't think so. That road doesn't need any help at all from big trucks to take out riders.
[video=youtube;Usw-bQR3nAQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usw-bQR3nAQ[/video]
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Maybe if you were more concerned about being reasonable than being "right". You would realize that what you are saying is just ridiculous.

Yeah ok so not EVERYONE is going to crash every time a semi hits the road. Ok SOME people can avoid the accident. So what?
I don't think that there is any doubt in the minds of people who see those pictures or went there that the hazard posed by a truck on this road is far above anything that we see in the city.

So people try to pass a law... grats on telling me that its not currently illegal.. because that would be obvious from the fact that they are trying to pass a law no? Are you suggesting that the fact that something is not currently illegal is somehow an arguement that a law should not be passed? because that would be pretty funny.

The fact that other hazards exist have no bearing on the merits of trying to prevent a different one.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
And even if I say there are seven days in a week, you will still choose to be miserable about it.
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Oh snap!

But seriously, I enjoy the entertainment you bring to this place, but your wrong about this one. Deals Gap is like a motorcycle wild life reserve and needs protection from huge trucks running us off the road at any speed. The road was build before 50ft trucks roamed the earth so why not take a day off from being a hard *** and just agree with common sense this time.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

If so many truckers regret taking the Dragon, why wouldn't they just ban them? As the more experienced ones know not to take it because they took it once and would never want to again. They even consider it unsafe to navigate.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

killerkeith said:
Oh snap!

But seriously, I enjoy the entertainment you bring to this place, but your wrong about this one. Deals Gap is like a motorcycle wild life reserve and needs protection from huge trucks running us off the road at any speed. The road was build before 50ft trucks roamed the earth so why not take a day off from being a hard *** and just agree with common sense this time.
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The road was also built before superbikes.

As for the place being like a motorcycle wild life reserve, that's nice. But it's also a public road and with that comes the need to ride it responsibly and be ready to share it with whatever comes along on it. That's where common sense also comes in.

If one were to ban a given class of vehicle on that road based on collision or crash frequency, which do you think would be banned first? Big trucks? Cars? SUVs pulling boat trailers? Or motorcycles?

I don't disagree that the road is not the best for trucks but big trucks, particularly the ones driven by locals who know the road, manage to navigate it safely every day. Like everything else in driving though, it requires cooperation between competing interests.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
The road was also built before superbikes.

As for the place being like a motorcycle wild life reserve, that's nice. But it's also a public road and with that comes the need to ride it responsibly and be ready to share it with whatever comes along on it. That's where common sense also comes in.

If one were to ban a given class of vehicle on that road based on collision or crash frequency, which do you think would be banned first? Big trucks? Cars? SUVs pulling boat trailers? Or motorcycles?

I don't disagree that the road is not the best for trucks but big trucks, particularly the ones driven by locals who know the road, manage to navigate it safely every day. Like everything else in driving though, it requires cooperation between competing interests.
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**** that! Im not "sharing" the road with the front of a truck!

Turbodish why do you ride?
 
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casacrow said:
I drive a 387. Wish I could afford the new 587, but that is not an option for me currently. You are correct to say none of my money goes to that road. I only haul a container B-train locally. I was just trying to think of possible local opposition. You are also correct that my map reading and trip planning may be laughable. My routes are less than 250km and pretty easy to plan. I did talk to flat bed guys moving equipment though. I am not sure where they were coming from, or where they were going, but was told US129 is the most direct route, and any other route would be extremely out if their way.
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Ok, fair enough. I apologise for coming off harsh, but your first post made me think you were just another one of those friggin' Interstate cowboys. I still find it hard to believe the 129 is "the most direct route", in fact I've been told the complete opposite by truckers with way more experience than I. But any driver with a Motor Carrier's Atlas in their possession should be able to figure this out on their own. And apparently there are several warning signs for trucks placed well in advance of the Dragon, so there really is no excuse for one to be on there.

BTW, I drive an '08 Pete 386.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
I don't disagree that the road is not the best for trucks but big trucks, particularly the ones driven by locals who know the road, manage to navigate it safely every day. Like everything else in driving though, it requires cooperation between competing interests.
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I'd have to say the "locals" being the ones that know it best does not necessarily indicate they manage to navigate it safely every day. They ride it faster than I ever thought possible, well above the posted limit. There is no way that many of these locals would survive a crash with a truck.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

CrazyKell said:
I'd have to say the "locals" being the ones that know it best does not necessarily indicate they manage to navigate it safely every day. They ride it faster than I ever thought possible, well above the posted limit. There is no way that many of these locals would survive a crash with a truck.
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The locals that I was referring to are local heavy truck drivers. ;-)
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
The locals that I was referring to are local heavy truck drivers. ;-)
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Ahhh okay....that makes sense. I thought you meant riders and I was going to say that making it through the dragon in a third of the time I do does not seem all that safe! LOL
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

The road was built to serve the local traffic needs but is now a carnival ride for gixxers and gawkers. Before super sports and super semis the road was probably just fine for the purpose it was built. When locals came to an impass they probably stopped, gabbed a bit and sipped some shine before resolving who was going to back up. There is no question that times have changed.

Somewhere before the point of no return there has to be room for a serpentine that all vehicles must go through. If you can't make it through without touching the whisker poles then you turn around. Tough luck. It would be like the overhead height signs at parking garages. If they touch your roof you turn around.

Once the big rigs are dealt with could someone tell me how to eliminate the attention deficit drivers who can't keep a Toyota Corolla on the right side of the road in a gentle turn? Oops the Toyota is on the towbar of their R/V.

Once the oversized vehicles are filtered out motorcycles can go faster resulting in more single vehicle crashes or bike to bike crashes. Then victim's families can sue the state because their changes implied that the road was unsafe for general traffic and was being operated only as a risky amusement.

How much money does the road bring in and is it a big factor?

To the tiny budgets of immediate businesses will be a huge factor.

To the small budget of local governments is will be a big factor.

To the moderate budget of the county it will be a modest amount.

To the state's huge budget the impact will likely be minimal.

So who of the above is willing to pay billions to provide the locals with an alternate route?

The petition yes factor seems strong so who knows where it will go. I also heard that there's another petition brewing in Caledon to ban motorcycles on FOTC and a few other roads. Comments?
 
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