Petition to ban commercial vehicles from US129 (Deals Gap)

Forum Sponsor
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

rafiki911 said:
Little lost here, you guys want to stop trucks from doing their job because you want to have fun on a road??? How about a petition for better truck driving courses. There are tighter roads in Greece and I've seen trucks and busses doing them at more than the posted limit.
Click to expand...

are the trailers in greece 53' long and do the trucks damage the goat paths in greece when they can't navigate the corners? it's a matter of safety not fun here, the trucks aren't doing the posted limit, and they can not navigate the roads and stay on their side of or even on the road. driving recklessly may be acceptable in greece and other nations where traffic laws are at best a suggestion but have a gander at the pics posted and the pics on the link, there are places that the truck become stuck due to the grade or the sharpness of the turn
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Yup, they have big trucks in Greece too. Oh, and they are not driving recklessly. They are just better drivers. Bah. Some times they have to go slow though cause of the sheep and goats crossing though;)
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

rafiki911 said:
Yup, they have big trucks in Greece too. Oh, and they are not driving recklessly. They are just better drivers. Bah. Some times they have to go slow though cause of the sheep and goats crossing though;)
Click to expand...

Have you seen the road we're talking about? It is not physically possible for an 18 wheeler to be contained in one lane for the majority of it's length.
 
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of motorcycles down there can't seem to negotiate The Dragon while staying in their own lane. The videos, that have been posted here, only serve to reinforce that.

Banning oversized vehicles only makes sense, but there's more to the issue than just that.
 
rafiki911 said:
Little lost here, you guys want to stop trucks from doing their job because you want to have fun on a road??? How about a petition for better truck driving courses. There are tighter roads in Greece and I've seen trucks and busses doing them at more than the posted limit.
Click to expand...

Doing their job would be finding the safest route. This road often shows as a shortcut, but in reality ends up taking longer because of the difficulties negotiating that road in a longer vehicle. This ain't Greece sweetheart.

Rob MacLennan said:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of motorcycles down there can't seem to negotiate The Dragon while staying in their own lane. The videos, that have been posted here, only serve to reinforce that.

Banning oversized vehicles only makes sense, but there's more to the issue than just that.
Click to expand...

Too true!


Oh and big ups to Gummiente. I was going to post a long response about IFTA, fuel tax, etc.....but you covered it well.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of motorcycles down there can't seem to negotiate The Dragon while staying in their own lane. The videos, that have been posted here, only serve to reinforce that.

Banning oversized vehicles only makes sense, but there's more to the issue than just that.
Click to expand...

I think you are right Rob, however it is a seperate issue. You can't ban people based on skill level, how could you?? A motorcycle is completely capable of handling that road, a semi is not. That is why they should be banned.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

TwistedKestrel said:
Have you seen the road we're talking about? It is not physically possible for an 18 wheeler to be contained in one lane for the majority of it's length.
Click to expand...

That also describes many town and city intersections here where trucks have to swing wide across two lanes both entering and exiting the intersection in order to make the turn. Ideally there should be truck routes to avoid the need for such kinds of turning maneuvers but it's not always possible or practical.

The Tail of the Dragon is a signed 30mph zone. Ideally big trucks will find other routes but even so, if smaller traffic is actually observing that limit and anticipating that there may be long vehicles coming the other way that may need to encroach on their lane, there should be no problem being able to safely manage such encounters, just as we manage here with trucks at tight intersections.
 
I drive a 387. Wish I could afford the new 587, but that is not an option for me currently. You are correct to say none of my money goes to that road. I only haul a container B-train locally. I was just trying to think of possible local opposition. You are also correct that my map reading and trip planning may be laughable. My routes are less than 250km and pretty easy to plan. I did talk to flat bed guys moving equipment though. I am not sure where they were coming from, or where they were going, but was told US129 is the most direct route, and any other route would be extremely out if their way. The trucks as I see it have not hurt anyone. It is the riders lack of ability that does. If you can not get slowed for animals, farm tractors, slower riders, tractor trailers, and emergency vehicles- please stay home and keep off that road. I really do not want to see people get hurt or killed. As far as I know there have been no deaths involving tractor trailers, but many involving just motorcycles. I know this may sound a bit off, but it seems very real to me. Many riders fear trucks around the corner. This I would assume makes them ride with caution. If riders knew there would be no truck traffic I would have to think that average rider speed would go up. This would lead to more line crossing, and collisions with oncoming traffic including, bikes, cars, and those that pull their boats and such, regularly crossing into oncoming traffic. By all means sign the petition if it's what you believe. I encourage everyone to take a stand. Myself, I think it will cause more injuries. I really wonder if people are signing the petition to help reduce injuries, or are they signing in hopes of having a clear road, allowing them to feel safe and secure, to ride even faster and even more beyond their abilities. The slow moving trucks might be out of the way, but the lad in his jacked up diesel pulling his 20' boat, will still be waiting on your side of the road around the corner. Play safe......please
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
That also describes many town and city intersections here where trucks have to swing wide across two lanes both entering and exiting the intersection in order to make the turn. Ideally there should be truck routes to avoid the need for such kinds of turning maneuvers but it's not always possible or practical.

The Tail of the Dragon is a signed 30mph zone. Ideally big trucks will find other routes but even so, if smaller traffic is actually observing that limit and anticipating that there may be long vehicles coming the other way that may need to encroach on their lane, there should be no problem being able to safely manage such encounters, just as we manage here with trucks at tight intersections.
Click to expand...

Please point out those blind intersections with traffic moving in both directions at the same time.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

beverage said:
Please point out those blind intersections with traffic moving in both directions at the same time.
Click to expand...
Any corner with a building right up against the intersecting sidewalks and where traffic hasn't backed up to the light yet. Any tight bend even where there is not an intersection. I can think of several in the city. I can think of several out of the city where longer truck traffic as well as towed RVs and boats will occupy parts of the oncoming lane to get through. Think parts of Snake Rd, Cedar Springs Rd, etc, where there are truck restrictions posted in some places trucks are still permitted through for local deliveries. Think of the roads in cottage country.

Point is, 30 mph zone means slow speeds, very short stopping distances. It should be safely manageable even without escort vehicles if all are paying even minimal attention. It will not be manageable if some are not paying attention or treating the road as a race track.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
Any corner with a building right up against the intersecting sidewalks and where traffic hasn't backed up to the light yet. Any tight bend even where there is not an intersection. I can think of several in the city. I can think of several out of the city where longer truck traffic as well as towed RVs and boats will occupy parts of the oncoming lane to get through. Think parts of Snake Rd, Cedar Springs Rd, etc, where there are truck restrictions posted in some places trucks are still permitted through for local deliveries. Think of the roads in cottage country.

Point is, 30 mph zone means slow speeds, very short stopping distances. It should be safely manageable even without escort vehicles if all are paying even minimal attention. It will not be manageable if some are not paying attention or treating the road as a race track.
Click to expand...

And at all those intersections the opposing traffic is facing a red light or stop sign. There is no "surprise factor" involved in suddenly, out of nowhere, facing the grill of a tractor trailer in your own lane at a closing rate of 40mph (30 for the bike, 10 for the truck).
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

beverage said:
And at all those intersections the opposing traffic is facing a red light or stop sign. There is no "surprise factor" involved in suddenly, out of nowhere, facing the grill of a tractor trailer in your own lane at a closing rate of 40mph (30 for the bike, 10 for the truck).
Click to expand...

You assume that such intersections have opposing traffic controls. I can think of a few that do not. Also, even with those that do have opposing traffic controls, traffic in one way is only stopped once traffic has backed up. Until then, traffic is moving. And you haven't addressed the issue of tight 90s or s-bends around buildings in the city where there is two-way traffic and no intersection or intersection controls. We manage. Then again, we tend to not view such places as wonderful substitutes for a test track.

The approach speeds to the tighter bends on the Tail of the Dragon, for big trucks, would be quite slow. There should be no surprise factor for a bike travelling even at the full speed limit. A bike doesn't need as much room to move over and if needed should be able to stop quick enough, but that requires the rider to be paying attention and travelling at a speed and in a manner that provides margin to react.

In any case, it's not the ideal road for big trucks, but the issue is bigger than just that. The issue also comes down to how the non-truck traffic "plays" on the road, which is another problem in itself.
 
Holmes said:
I think you are right Rob, however it is a seperate issue. You can't ban people based on skill level, how could you?? A motorcycle is completely capable of handling that road, a semi is not. That is why they should be banned.
Click to expand...

Obviously you can't. Given the various videos I've seen and first hand accounts I've heard though, I have no desire to ride The Dragon. I've been through the area more times than I can count, on my way south, and have never bothered. I like my other Tennessee and Alabama roads.

As I said, banning oversized vehicles is a no brainer. If a vehicle is physically incapable of properly navigating a road, then it shouldn't be permitted on it. This should be by vehicle length, not ownership.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
You assume that such intersections have opposing traffic controls. I can think of a few that do not. Also, even with those that do have opposing traffic controls, traffic in one way is only stopped once traffic has backed up. Until then, traffic is moving. And you haven't addressed the issue of tight 90s or s-bends around buildings in the city where there is two-way traffic and no intersection or intersection controls. We manage. Then again, we tend to not view such places as wonderful substitutes for a test track.

The approach speeds to the tighter bends on the Tail of the Dragon, for big trucks, would be quite slow. There should be no surprise factor for a bike travelling even at the full speed limit. A bike doesn't need as much room to move over and if needed should be able to stop quick enough, but that requires the rider to be paying attention and travelling at a speed and in a manner that provides margin to react.
Click to expand...

You're being pedantic.

The argument here is that this road is not suitable for tractor trailer combinations and there are better alternatives. It is not the fastest way even though it may be the shortest.

Yes there are many roads not suited for tractor trailer use, but we are not talking about those roads here.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

turbodish said:
You assume that such intersections have opposing traffic controls. I can think of a few that do not. Also, even with those that do have opposing traffic controls, traffic in one way is only stopped once traffic has backed up. Until then, traffic is moving. And you haven't addressed the issue of tight 90s or s-bends around buildings in the city where there is two-way traffic and no intersection or intersection controls. We manage. Then again, we tend to not view such places as wonderful substitutes for a test track.

The approach speeds to the tighter bends on the Tail of the Dragon, for big trucks, would be quite slow. There should be no surprise factor for a bike travelling even at the full speed limit. A bike doesn't need as much room to move over and if needed should be able to stop quick enough, but that requires the rider to be paying attention and travelling at a speed and in a manner that provides margin to react.

In any case, it's not the ideal road for big trucks, but the issue is bigger than just that. The issue also comes down to how the non-truck traffic "plays" on the road, which is another problem in itself.
Click to expand...

And the blind corners? At the speed limit? Where you're suddenly faced by something like this?

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html
 
casacrow said:
The slow moving trucks might be out of the way, but the lad in his jacked up diesel pulling his 20' boat, will still be waiting on your side of the road around the corner. Play safe......please
Click to expand...

The petition is trying to ban commercial vehicles that are TOO BIG for the road size. the "jacked up diesel pulling his 20' boat" is probably not going to take the Dragon to get to its destination as the best route of travel. But yes, there are still going to be big non-commercial vehicle on the Dragon possibly towing things, but regarless, they are still smaller than the 18+ wheelers that act more like a very long/wide moving 1000+pound wall coming towards your little 500pound motorcycle, no matter what the speed. At least you can possibly, depending on the circumstances, manouveur around the smaller vehicles, and it would be less likely for them to be in your lane.

We cannot stop accidents from happening, thats why they are called accidents. We can however PREVENT them from happening to the best of our ability. So lets help prevent more accidents and ban the commercial vehicles from this popular motorcycle road. Motorcyclists will never stop riding this road because its so popular and an amazing ride. So if you can't stop something, make it safer by stopping what you can.
 
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Rob MacLennan said:
And the blind corners? At the speed limit? Where you're suddenly faced by something like this?

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html
Click to expand...

Which is certainly an issue. How long does it take to stop from 30 mph or less? That question applies to both bike and truck when they encounter each other.

Also, riders and drivers KNOW there are blind corners. Surely that demands that each demonstrates some reasonable prudence and that they avoid diving into such corners with nothing more than faint hope ensuring that the way is clear beyond their sightlines and ability to react.
 
Last edited:
Re: If You or Want To Ride The Dragon

Slightly off topic.I've never been a fan of protests or petitions and this one is no different.I think this petition could be doomed because of the signatures from foreigners.Thoughts?
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom