In just one hour, 10 out of 12 in the pack busted for street racing.

[croco]

Forum Sponsor

I think that the penalty for ANY racing of any sort on a public street or road should result in permanent loss of your bike and your M license.

You know, I actually agree with you on that point. But I couldn't see any racing in this case. Let me look up the definition of racing for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing

As far as I can tell, a race involves two or more people competing against each other. In a vehicle, speeding, changing lanes, accelerating and braking quickly may be components, but without the competition you have no race. Also burn-outs, wheelies, stoppies are never part of racing. This is merely the government corrupting the meaning of a word so the lemmings will get scared and approve the legislation. Have a guy drive 50km/h over the limit on an empty road enjoying the scenery just doesn't invoke the same mental picture as a mad racer.

And it's a wild guess, but I don't think even 1% of all s.172 charges in Ontario are actually honest racing circumstances. I know I am not too far from the truth, because going by last years' statistics, about 30% end up being dismissed, 30% end up pleaded down and only about 30% end in convictions. The VAST majority of those convicted were just doing 50km/h over the speed limit by themselves.

Why even allow people to own bikes larger than 600cc?

A 600cc supersport will easily do 250km/h all day long, but even my old RZ350 could do 200km/h. I don't know anything about cruisers, but I'm pretty sure a 600cc one (if such a thing even exists) will get into s.172 territory on the highway. So if we go by top speed alone, he'd have to ban any bike larger than 250cc. Not going to happen without killing thousands of jobs in a province that is already hurting economically. Half the people will stop riding, and bike shops will be closing left and right.

Besides, haven't you noticed that while the PR is always about public safety, it really boils down to revenues? McGuinty WANTS you to have a fast car or bike and he WANTS you to speed so he can tag you with a $10000 fine, plus lawyer, impound and license reinstatement fees.

 

[SkyRider]

Fact is the number of other road users killed because of a motorcyclist's actions are negligible. Cyclists probably kill more people.... yet you don't see them getting their bicycle impounded.

Yes I know they were speeding.... usually when there was no one else around and they had very good visibility.

seems like you got it backwards, their bikes got impounded not because they're bikers. they got busted cuz they broke the law. they could've been in a car, tractor, spaceship, same outcome if they got caught.

so when no one else is on the road we can use it as a race track? i guess you are ok with me waving a loaded handgun on your residential street and firing it into the sky, as long as i dont aim the gun at people.

 

[turbodish]

Yes Turbo will post up evidence of it (bike killing a driver) happening here in Ontario after a dude went into a tankslapper due to poor road surfaces and lost control.... 4 years ago or so. Fact is the number of other road users killed because of a motorcyclist's actions are negligible. Cyclists probably kill more people.... yet you don't see them getting their bicycle impounded.

As far as I recall, cyclists have killed one pedestrian in the past few years. It's rare, as is serious injury.

On the other hand, while riders don't kill many people in cars, they certainly do manage to injure them severely on a more frequent basis than you might think. There have been a number of people in cars seriously injured in crashes with bikes this year, and mostly in crashes where rider error caused the crash. Don't they count in your world?

 

[adv_round]

Naah, you don't get it... it's more like smoking in your car alone, or smoking in public place... get it...
We on our bikes are danger to ourselves a lot more than to anyone else on the road, statistically and literally.

Now - what I think of all this - I'm getting really tired of the BS.

"This kind of driving not only threatens the lives of the riders but puts everyone around them at risk."

Give me a break. In reality - it puts every insecure egomaniac driving a minivan at risk of erectile dysfunction - at best.
Low-life morons are feeding into frenzy... safety police taking over... and they're loving it.
When it comes to motorcycles speeding, public safety is least of an issue - anyone who denies this is in denial.

 

[itinkle]

But what is a speed limit? Is it a serious crime that warrants this kind of attention. Om my god, they passed that really slow truck in 2 seconds. Sure they passed on a double yellow, but did they do it in a dangerous way? What if speed limits were 200km/h and you could pass on a double yellow? Are they still doing something dangerous? Flame on, whatever.

 

[Metastable]

seems like you got it backwards, their bikes got impounded not because they're bikers. they got busted cuz they broke the law. they could've been in a car, tractor, spaceship, same outcome if they got caught.

so when no one else is on the road we can use it as a race track? i guess you are ok with me waving a loaded handgun on your residential street and firing it into the sky, as long as i dont aim the gun at people.

No dude, I don't have it backwards.... I don't care that they were on bikes. If I'm on the road and anyone is driving in a careless manner, sure bust them. If I were on that road with those bikes, I would NOT have felt threatened. They were typically going fairly slow around cars, they weren't splitting cars at speed or weaving back and forth through cars or stunting or racing anyone.

IF YOU GUYS WERE SCARED by the actions of the motorcyclists in THAT VIDEO. Please never go drive on the Autobahnn, you might have a heart attack!

And for the record.... I only have a track bike anyway. Open stretch or road with no one around and a divided barrier (most of it was like that on the video)..... and a racetrack with no one on it = to me roughly the same level of risk. What is the difference between opening it up at the track or on the street if no one else is around and you have good visibility? Not much..... pretty safe. So giving them a harsh speeding ticket.... OK cool. Impounding bikes for what they did = Too Harsh.

 

[overlordjd]

Flame on.

Most of you sound like a bunch of grandparents lobbying to give the government more power to control your lives and think it will never affect you because you are this perfect law abiding citizen. If only that were put to the test and your lives were placed under scrutiny. Never even downloaded a copyright song or anything for that matter, correct?

A lot of these new laws are setup in a way that it all boils down to interpretation. Take the example from the video of street racing. Where did you see street racing there? They were not jockeying for position from what I saw.

I often wonder why some of you people join forums like this in the first place.
I may be wrong but I don’t think it was the intention of the OP to lobby for stronger laws when he decided to post this video. The intent seemed more informative to me than anything else, but then again some of you may know what the person’s actual intent was.

Almost all vehicles on the road are capable of surpassing the 50Km over the speed limit law. It is just a matter of how fast they can do it. By some of your logic, they should stop making these cars period or restrict them from being able to acheive those speeds.

Bring the Flame

 

[EngineerJoe]

I generally don't agree with the seizure of assets as punishment. Fines and jail time are fair game, but there's something about taking my stuff that seems like it's too much power for the Government.

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure
11. Any person charged with an offence has the right
(d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;

I understand the spirit of these two sections of the Canadian Charter or Rights. 172 is coming dangerously close to violating it (if it's not in violation of it already). I'll give you the fact that section 8. depends on how you define "unreasonable", but seizure of a vehicle before a trial (thus removing the checks and balances in the system designed to maximize equality and fairness) is unreasonable... and also potentially a violation of the Canadian Charter or Rights. Notice I'm not talking about the suspension of my license (which I won't argue is a privilege), only the vehicle.

I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? .... There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

Replace "high chancellor, Adam Sutler" with "Ontario Premier, Dalton McGuinty" and there you have it.

 

[jc100]

Flame on.

Most of you sound like a bunch of grandparents lobbying to give the government more power to control your lives and think it will never affect you because you are this perfect law abiding citizen. If only that were put to the test and your lives were placed under scrutiny. Never even downloaded a copyright song or anything for that matter, correct?

A lot of these new laws are setup in a way that it all boils down to interpretation. Take the example from the video of street racing. Where did you see street racing there? They were not jockeying for position from what I saw.

I often wonder why some of you people join forums like this in the first place.
I may be wrong but I don’t think it was the intention of the OP to lobby for stronger laws when he decided to post this video. The intent seemed more informative to me than anything else, but then again some of you may know what the person’s actual intent was.

Almost all vehicles on the road are capable of surpassing the 50Km over the speed limit law. It is just a matter of how fast they can do it. By some of your logic, they should stop making these cars period or restrict them from being able to acheive those speeds.

Bring the Flame

You're kind of missing the argument here totally....no one is saying ban speedy vehicles from the road. People are just arguing that those that can't control their vehicles and keep them to reasonable limits should be punished. Or do you disagree with that?

 

[ddusseld]

There are some fundamental differences of opinion that will not be bridged over the interweb. I'm all for punishing people who break the law. But, I want the punishment to be enacted after being found guilty in a court of law, not at the side of the road. I'd also prefer a punishment that fits the crime. The guys crossing that bridge at 120kph in a 70kph zone were not in any way stunting/racing/out of control. They were speeding. Charge them with speeding. Let them go to court and defend themselves and then if found guilty be assigned an appropriate punishment.

You're kind of missing the argument here totally....no one is saying ban speedy vehicles from the road. People are just arguing that those that can't control their vehicles and keep them to reasonable limits should be punished. Or do you disagree with that?

 

[kamikaze]

There are some fundamental differences of opinion that will not be bridged over the interweb. I'm all for punishing people who break the law. But, I want the punishment to be enacted after being found guilty in a court of law, not at the side of the road. I'd also prefer a punishment that fits the crime. The guys crossing that bridge at 120kph in a 70kph zone were not in any way stunting/racing/out of control. They were speeding. Charge them with speeding. Let them go to court and defend themselves and then if found guilty be assigned an appropriate punishment.

Couldn't have said it better myself. HTA172 isn't innocent until proven guilty. I highly doubt that if you do manage to get the charges dropped that the province is going to reimburse you for the impound and towing fees, nor is the license suspension likely to come off your record either. it's a ******** law that's far too open to interpretation.

 

[jc100]

There are some fundamental differences of opinion that will not be bridged over the interweb. I'm all for punishing people who break the law. But, I want the punishment to be enacted after being found guilty in a court of law, not at the side of the road. I'd also prefer a punishment that fits the crime. The guys crossing that bridge at 120kph in a 70kph zone were not in any way stunting/racing/out of control. They were speeding. Charge them with speeding. Let them go to court and defend themselves and then if found guilty be assigned an appropriate punishment.

And the hypothetical neighbour waving his shotgun around...you'd rather him keep the thing after being seen and maybe recorded doing so? His individual rights would trump your rights to a safe environment? The drunk driver gets to keep his car because he can't be adjudged to be a danger at the side of the road?

Look, I get where you're coming from but if someone is found banged to rights being a knob...excessively...then I want to know that they are going to be stopped from being a knob right there and then. I want the drunks car impounded...the kids bb-gun confiscated..and the hypothetical neighbours shotgun removed from his hands...and the vehicle operators vehicle if he is found to not be able to control it within reason.

 

[AGAVE]

I figure i should have been thrown in jail about 5000 times so far.....

 

[SkyRider]

Let them go to court and defend themselves and then if found guilty be assigned an appropriate punishment.

exactly. if john doe stole your bike and got caught. should the cop hand him a court appearance letter and let him go? you ask the cop why did you let him go? cop says yeahh before he gets thrown in jail he must go to court first and defend himself.

sounds ridiculous right?

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I figure i should have been thrown in jail about 5000 times so far.....

Ban AGAVE for being a dirty pot-smoking street racer!

 

[AGAVE]

Ban AGAVE for being a dirty pot-smoking street racer!

I also steal parking spaces, swear alot, and don't use the recycling bin correctly either.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I also steal parking spaces, swear alot, and don't use the recycling bin correctly either.

For that, we need to impound your truck, tooth fillings and throwing arm :shock:

 

[caboose56]

The Sea to Sky highway is a strange road.

Speed limit is 80 for most of it but there's also a bicycle lane the whole way. There are A LOT of road cyclists using that road. A mixture of commercial truck traffic, normal vehicle traffic, motorcycle traffic and bicycle traffic.. It is no small wonder that it is a high enforcement area.

Coming into Vancouver on Saturday afternoon i passed two motorcycle accidents, both of them fairly serious.

http://www.squamishchief.com/articl...ekend-for-motorcyclists-on-sea-to-sky-highway

 

[Jayv]

This law isn't going away any time soon, infact i could see the 50km/h becoming 40km/h in the near future.


Here are your options.


Option A Sell bike and buy volvo.

Option B turn street bike into track only

Option C Buy a cruiser.

Option D Do your majority of riding across the border instead of crappy ontario roads.

 

[jc100]

This law isn't going away any time soon, infact i could see the 50km/h becoming 40km/h in the near future.


Here are your options.


Option A Sell bike and buy volvo.

Option B turn street bike into track only

Option C Buy a cruiser.

Option D Do your majority of riding across the border instead of crappy ontario roads.

If you mean Quebec...I see more cop cars in Quebec than I do here in Ontario...if you mean the US...I see zero tolerance from US cops in NY State to anything over the speed limit unlike here. I think it's perfectly easy to enjoy the ride here in Ontario if you're smart about it. The only real problem I have riding my bike in this province has nothing to do with cops and the speed limit...it's the condition of the ****ing roads...and that is an involuntary speed limiter right there.

Forum Sponsor