Ride your own pace

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excellent advice...
on known corner with visibility and good pavement practice coming in a little faster and getting on the brakes harder than you would normally and then accelerate out....build up slowly.

Every stop sign on rural roads can be practice in hard braking to see how you and your bike feel.
The dynamics of your suspension change a lot under braking and under acceleration or even as mentioned under engine braking.
You want to concentrate on getting through the corner without panic or sudden shifts in vectors.
That's why being at the right speed and gear is critical coming into the corner and you can improve your speed getting out.
Coming in too hot is good way to get the heartbeat way too high especially downhill off camber.

as he mentioned - easing off the throttle and concentrate on getting through it

brake AND downshift before you get into the corner and accelerate out smoothly. Practice.....have fun.

No traffic, known roads with visibility and decent surfaces will prep you for the unexpected cager crossing the line, gravel or a bit too much heat....

.. and you'll feel in control. A little scare that makes you think about it is a good thing, you stayed up and will concentrate.
 
Something that I found very helpful, when doing what MacDoc described, is to take that known corner a gear higher than I normally would. There are both psychological and mechanical benefits to this.

Firstly, you don't have the engine screaming at you, at 10K rpm, telling the ol' lizard brain that you're going way too fast for the corner. That helps keep your fight/flight response from kicking in which in turn helps you keep making rational decisions, rather than ones caused by instinctive response. With your conscious mind in gear you're able to train yourself, so that later instinctive reactions will more likely be the right ones.

Second, it helps to keep you smooth while going through the corner. Little inputs to the throttle can make disproportionately large changes. They effect your speed and, therefore, your lean, weight distribution, steering geometry.... This will be less of an issue at lower rpm, where small changes in throttle position cause less of a percentage change in speed.

Rather than working on things like body position (getting off the seat), speed, and lean angle, start with head position. Work on keeping your head vertical, no matter how far over you lean, and looking as far ahead in the corner as you can possibly make yourself. If you lean your head into a corner, you make that corner seem faster than it is. If you're looking 5 metres in front of your front tire, then things seem to happen pretty bloody fast. Combine those two things and you're far more likely to panic. Keeping your head vertical and looking far ahead makes everything seem to happen more slowly.

After you've got that stuff right, you can start working on things like balls of the feet on the pegs, shifting weight or even getting off the seat, and the rest. Do one thing. Do it right. Learn it. Make it automatic. Then move on to the next.
 
Griffin said:
New riders should not be riding in groups at all. Ride with one other person. When you're comfortable with your skills then if, for some unfathomable reason, you want to ride in a group with all the related irritation and hazard go ahead.

If you bought a motorcycle as a means of socializing, meet up with other riders somewhere where you can socialize. Don't clog the roadways with herds of self-absorbed cattle.
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I agree completely. Well said.

Granted, I got on a motorcycle to get the hell away from everyone...so the very notion of a group ride baffles me, but I believe that new riders would have a better understanding of what their own comfortable pace was if they spent more time riding alone. They don't always have to ride alone, mind you...but it seems like a lot of newbs only seem to ride in groups.
 
Flashmonkey said:
I agree completely. Well said.

Granted, I got on a motorcycle to get the hell away from everyone...so the very notion of a group ride baffles me, but I believe that new riders would have a better understanding of what their own comfortable pace was if they spent more time riding alone. They don't always have to ride alone, mind you...but it seems like a lot of newbs only seem to ride in groups.
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Well, you see, there are two types of group rides. The first is when a bunch of people get together and plan out a route of scenic, interesting roads and a common destination, and go there. The second I'll just refer to as a "parade", and leave it at that.

I stopped riding in groups when everything became a parade.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Well, you see, there are two types of group rides. The first is when a bunch of people get together and plan out a route of scenic, interesting roads and a common destination, and go there. The second I'll just refer to as a "parade", and leave it at that.

I stopped riding in groups when everything became a parade.
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I have yet to ride in a group, but based on my experience with groups in other dynamics, things always end up turning into a "parade" :p
 
what rob said in the long post ....a chunk at a time and yah good idea on keeping rpms from too high as it makes the machine twitchy if it's screaming.

Smooth gearing up and down is another thing that every single stoplight or stop sign it is good to practice - some newbies coast and it's flat out wrong.
That smooth up and down IN GEAR keeps you in the correct power band so the bike will respond when you need it both to roll on AND to rolling off the throttle. Pays off in the corner adjusting line and accelerating out.
The roll off latter can get you on trouble in a curve as mentioned so get smooth on the straights.

Each bike is different - the bike should be responsive without bogging or screaming. There is a clear "good power band " - todays bikes are nowhere near as peaky as the two strokes many of us grew up on.

The RD400 I put so many miles on was one of the first that was forgiving with it's power band and docile around town yet still wail in the twisties.
The 4 strokes now have more grunt so you have a wider sweet spot but something like a 250 Ninja only really comes to life if you are stirring it up and down in a high rpm band.

It takes purposeful practice but just plain saddle time as well. The idea is after all to have fun. :D
get out there.....
 
2 People - group ride

4 People - group ride

8 People - 50/50

34 People - parade

The last 2 group rides, that I went on, were 34 people. The second one was supposed to be two friends, and myself, on a breakfast ride. One of those friends made the mistake of mentioning our plan. Thirty-one more people just showed up.

One crashed.
 
oouch....34 !!!!! yikes that red flash would be my tail lights disappearing down the first side road.....paved or not.

hell I'd settle for a reasonable stream bed ;)
 
Back to the original topic...

Am I the only rider with built-in fear switches? Riding my own ride for me has always been about managing risk, which in turn depends on heeding my fear switches. If something is uncomfortable or feels wrong, I slow it down. Perfect example a few weeks ago out with a group charging headfirst into miles of blind corners, many with gravel down the center. I slowed it down. Not worth a head-on collision or a lowside to me. I just met up with them at the next stop again. That's the way everyone should ride, regardless of experience. If something makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it! You can't concentrate on the task at hand if you're feeling at all anxious. All good things come with time, and you can't rush experience.
 
MacDoc said:
oouch....34 !!!!! yikes that red flash would be my tail lights disappearing down the first side road.....paved or not.

hell I'd settle for a reasonable stream bed ;)
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Sometimes I'm just too stubborn. We had planned our ride and I was going on it. One thing I learnt, on those last two rides, was that my usual modus operandi of riding sweep, so that I could hang back and ride my own pace through the corners, doesn't work when the ride is stretched out over three km. You simply can't ride slowly enough to create a gap worth the name.

I think that the largest ride that i ever led, myself, was 12 bikes. It went fairly well.
 
stormcat said:
Back to the original topic...

Am I the only rider with built-in fear switches? Riding my own ride for me has always been about managing risk, which in turn depends on heeding my fear switches. If something is uncomfortable or feels wrong, I slow it down. Perfect example a few weeks ago out with a group charging headfirst into miles of blind corners, many with gravel down the center. I slowed it down. Not worth a head-on collision or a lowside to me. I just met up with them at the next stop again. That's the way everyone should ride, regardless of experience. If something makes you uncomfortable, then don't do it! You can't concentrate on the task at hand if you're feeling at all anxious. All good things come with time, and you can't rush experience.
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We're all responsible for our own ride, but ego can get the better of both fear, and common sense. On the largest ride I've led, that I mentioned previously, I knew that we had some inexperienced riders along. One, who I was particularly worried about, had a bad habit of always leaning the bike over while he remains upright, in the seat. I stopped at the top of Snake Road and described, at some length and corner by corner, what they were going to see. I took particular care to describe the decreasing radius left and how best to take it. When we got to the bottom of the road, at 6 and Snake, that rider said that he NOW understood what I'd said, because he had almost eaten the guardrail.

On that last ride, with 34 bikes, he did while trying to keep up with a faster rider. Some posters here will recognize this story, as they were on both rides.
 
I'm glad I let my fear switches overrule my ego. About 99.8% of the time to be completely honest.

I was on a group ride a while back with one rider who was only on her 5th ever ride. I was behind her. She crashed in a corner up around Mono Mills. Rode over her head, was trying to stay in staggered position through the corners, and didn't look all the way through the corner. She has since slowed it down, thankfully. She was fine, btw.
 
CruisnGrrl said:
Probably should post this in the n00b section, maybe in a few days a mod can move it there. I posted a variation of this on xtina's what bike do i replace my crashed bike thread but that's in the trash and most of the people that have access to it.

Noobs are told to ride @ their own pace but how do they know what is their own safe pace? I don't know what I don't know, how can I expect some one who knows less to know that too. Or if a noob is going too fast do they know how to scrub off speed when they are in a corner and finally realize they are going too fast? Many reactions would have them going straight off the corner and into a wall, ditch, car, off a cliff. If they knew that stuff they wouldn't be noobs and they could ride at their own pace.

I've ridden with a few noobs that are overly cautious and those I can trust to park it in the corner of a nice long sweeper because the speed that the corner can be taken is outside the comfort zone of that rider. How ever you have riders that don't know their limits (and if they don't know their limits how am I) and will try to keep up with the pace of more advanced riders. Maybe they took the m1 exit course and now think they are a pro, yet never have been faster than 35km/h on a motorcycle or bicycle (the mechanics of piloting a bicycle are the same as a motorcycle). these are the ones that would benefit from an advanced riding course or a track day course.

These are the riders usually making the news, I don't have to single out any names, they show up in our fallen riders section too often. on a group ride it's going to be monkey see, monkey do, and following some one who has poor techniques is just going to jeopardize the person following.
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Good topic. I like to consider group riding a selfless activity. The idea of a person coming to a group where the skill level is below their own, and not considering the risks they inflict on the group while attempting to boost their ego, is plain selfishness. In that case, they should find another group or ride solo. Simple. I would also like to appeal to those taking lead. This should also be a selfless act. If you're taking lead to feed your ego, than your motives are wrong. You should be doing this because you have a passion to impart the practical wisdom required to become an experienced and skilled rider.

Peace!
 
stormcat said:
I'm glad I let my fear switches overrule my ego. About 99.8% of the time to be completely honest.

I was on a group ride a while back with one rider who was only on her 5th ever ride. I was behind her. She crashed in a corner up around Mono Mills. Rode over her head, was trying to stay in staggered position through the corners, and didn't look all the way through the corner. She has since slowed it down, thankfully. She was fine, btw.
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I posted this in another thread, but it's very much on point with your comments: http://www.morallyambiguous.net/index.php/faq/39-motorcycle-general/group-riding-technique
 
I'm a total noob...
Haven't really been on too many group rides. I agree that learning on ones own at their own pace is best. So I go out on my own for a couple of hours and try to stay as consistent with all the things I know I should do and do them till it's in the subconscious.
The group rides I've been on, I'm struggling to keep up (mostly cuz it's a beginner bike and I'm riding with duc's and 600's minimum..) but I found out that I could do things waaaay past whatever limit I had given myself. Just have me the sense that I could push further if I wanted to...or rather when I felt comfortable to.
 
I think two important things should be added specifically.

1. Only pass when you have personally made sure it is safe to do so. I've done, and have seen others do it, resulting in mad dives back into your lane half seconds before a head on collision, and cutting/pissing off the cagers you passed.

2. brake early for corners you don't know, come in slow and from the outside so you can see through more of the turn. Just wave faster riders ahead on the next straight if they are on your tail. Come back and learn the corners on your own for next time. Its a lot nicer to wait for a rider at a stop sign than wait for a rider to drag himself and his bike out from a ditch.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
I posted this in another thread, but it's very much on point with your comments: http://www.morallyambiguous.net/index.php/faq/39-motorcycle-general/group-riding-technique
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That's a good writeup. I've read similar group ride rules, but they've typically been long-winded and laborious to get through. Yours is clear and to the point.

I've never gotten a route map, mind you. But every group I've been with will make stops to wait for the stragglers to catch up.
 
adamwest said:
Good topic. I like to consider group riding a selfless activity. The idea of a person coming to a group where the skill level is below their own, and not considering the risks they inflict on the group while attempting to boost their ego, is plain selfishness. In that case, they should find another group or ride solo. Simple. I would also like to appeal to those taking lead. This should also be a selfless act. If you're taking lead to feed your ego, than your motives are wrong. You should be doing this because you have a passion to impart the practical wisdom required to become an experienced and skilled rider.

Peace!
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You've made some very good points. One thing that I fail to comprehend is what is learned by a new rider riding with a group? How to avoid getting tipped over at a stop by some jerkwad?

You learn to ride by study and practice. You may learn from someone or from your own research but you need to practice. Following someone else in a herd does little except perhaps show you how to find the best line on a turn but why the hell do you want to learn that on the street anyway?

I realize I'm one of the minority but I have found group rides of anything more than four bikes (either as participant or annoyed road user) are disasters. I certainly see nothing to be gained by a new rider participating in one.
 
rutakin said:
That and I tap the back, never grab front.
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wow where did you get this piece of advise from?

dont wanna be rude but if you dont know what you are talking about please don't give advice.
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