so the new zx10r has it, so does the s1000rr and a few ducatis. just wondering, with traction control, does it mean you can WOT in the middle of a corner and the bike will not spin out and crash?
regarding traction control...
- Thread starter SkyRider
- Start date
I believe it prevents rear wheel from slipping (spinning) under hard acceleration. As a side effects it may prevent burnouts and wheelies too.
I don't think I'd want to WOT in a middle of a corner though.
Edit:
Here's a link that will likely answer your questions:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/es/2009/161373/
I don't think I'd want to WOT in a middle of a corner though.
Edit:
Here's a link that will likely answer your questions:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/es/2009/161373/
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Traction control systems will not compensate for the rider being an idiot. They are meant to be an "aid", they are not meant to be idiot-proof, and as with ALL such systems, they can not allow the vehicle to violate the laws of physics.
how is it violating physics though? so in mid corner the rider goes WOT, bike computer detects it and stops the rear wheel from spinning too much, therefore no crash. that's just my interpretation though but i wonder what would happen in real life.
The underlined part is false. You can still crash in many ways even without the rear spinning too much. Traction control will recognize the differences in speeds between front and rear, but it won't help you with the wheel slipping sideways.
Even without losing traction, you can still manage to knock yourself out of balance and run off the road.
It depends on how the system is programmed - there may be delays, or going to actual wide open throttle rather than a modulated setting might override the logic. It depends whether the tire decides to go sideways rather than spin, too.
There's a difference between a situation where the rider starts smoothly opening the throttle, but overshoots a little bit, and a situation where the rider arbitrarily whacks the throttle open. The programming may respond differently and on TC systems with different settings, the response will likely be different depending on what setting the rider has chosen.
Traction control and ABS systems can not make a motorcycle crash-proof.
There's a difference between a situation where the rider starts smoothly opening the throttle, but overshoots a little bit, and a situation where the rider arbitrarily whacks the throttle open. The programming may respond differently and on TC systems with different settings, the response will likely be different depending on what setting the rider has chosen.
Traction control and ABS systems can not make a motorcycle crash-proof.
Ok, crack that throttle wide open in mid corner. The bike will accelerate but not spin. Now you have a bike accelerating very fast in a corner. What do you do next? Either the bike shoots straight off the outside of the corner, or you lean harder so the bike will be able to round the corner without shooting straight off to the outside. At some point though, while still wide open on the throttle, you're going to lean beyond the tires' lateral traction capabilities or your bike's body or frame structure will contact the ground. Either way, now you low-side off and shoot straight off the outside of the corner.
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Griffin
Well-known member
I dunno about the Kawi.
I know a fair bit about the BMW. I haven't tried pinning it in a corner but, from what I've read about how its supposed to work and how it has worked for other riders, you can have the bike leaned over and crack the throttle and the DTC will monitor the angle of lean and restrict the throttle accordingly. Apparently its a bit freaky in that as you reduce lean the bike adds throttle by itself so long as you're continuing to hold it open.
I know a fair bit about the BMW. I haven't tried pinning it in a corner but, from what I've read about how its supposed to work and how it has worked for other riders, you can have the bike leaned over and crack the throttle and the DTC will monitor the angle of lean and restrict the throttle accordingly. Apparently its a bit freaky in that as you reduce lean the bike adds throttle by itself so long as you're continuing to hold it open.
wow that must be a weird feeling at first lol
Griffin
Well-known member
Not on the BMW you don't. The bike doesn't accelerate until the lean angle is decreased. As I mentioned, I dunno about the Kawi.
Griffin
Well-known member
Apparently very easy to control though. It smoothly adds power as the lean angle decreases.
The BMW system is a fully integrated traction/ABS/stability control system. This description doesn't suggest that the same level of sophistication exists in the Kawi system. http://blogs.sportrider.com/6706132...st-impression-new-generation-ninja/index.html
Not sure where you're getting that the Kawi system is not as sophisticated. It is just as sophisticated, but it operates in a different manner. The objective of the Kawasaki system is to get the bike around a race track faster - not necessarily to bail the rider out if they do something completely dumb.
The roadracers that I've spoken with about the BMW system have said that they have been riding it with the ABS "on" but the traction control "off", because even on its most permissive setting, it's too intrusive for roadracing use. That doesn't make it "more sophisticated" ... it's just different. This was last year - I don't know if any "race kit" calibration is available for it that may have changed things.
The roadracers that I've spoken with about the BMW system have said that they have been riding it with the ABS "on" but the traction control "off", because even on its most permissive setting, it's too intrusive for roadracing use. That doesn't make it "more sophisticated" ... it's just different. This was last year - I don't know if any "race kit" calibration is available for it that may have changed things.
It gets back to the OP's original question. The BMW's complete integrated system does much more to make their system rather idiot-proof for the rider than the Kawi's.
Does the Kawi factor lean angle into its traction control? If not, it's not as sophisticated or integrated a system as the BMW. It may well be a sophisticated "traction control" system, but the complete electronics package isn't as far reaching as the BMW's.
Mind you, neither is the price of the Kawi as far reaching either.
Does the Kawi factor lean angle into its traction control? If not, it's not as sophisticated or integrated a system as the BMW. It may well be a sophisticated "traction control" system, but the complete electronics package isn't as far reaching as the BMW's.
Mind you, neither is the price of the Kawi as far reaching either.
even though the Kawi does not have the gyroscopes to detect lean angle it seems the reviews favor it......check out this months motorcyclist, cycle world. You can still spin up the rear on the Kawi and the ecu allows you to steer with the rear and not highside.
And yes you can pin it in the middle of a corner.
it's a gyroscope,it knows lean angle in degrees....... The wheel sensors detect slip, similar to abs.
Keep in mind that all motorcycle traction control and ABS systems are only capable of doing anything about fore/aft tire slippage. If you exceed traction limits in cornering, these systems are powerless to do anything about it (because that would require interacting with the steering, which they do not do).
So, slippage is only inferred via differences between front and rear wheel rotation speeds. It has no idea whether the tires are sliding sideways or not. (Neither system does.)
The BMW apparently sets upper boundaries on engine torque output depending on bank angle, in addition to this. The Kawasaki doesn't, but it only allows a certain percentage of tire slippage, although this could be right up to maximum output torque.
I can see certain circumstances where setting an upper bound on engine torque depending on bank angle could unnecessarily limit acceleration, for example if the bike is going around a banked corner.
