Who's Fault Is It?

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silverbullet132 said:
As far as I know what he did is legal as the truck he was passing had his signal on to turn right. The part that makes it completely his fault is he should have seen that other truck and stopped before he passed.
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I agree, the rider is not legally at fault. Because of the differences between Africa and Canada, this situation translates to a rider passing a left turning vehicle on the right, which is completely legal as long as there is enough room for both vehicles to fit on the paved roadway. It might not have been smart, but to me it was legal (when comparing the situation to the HTA).
 
Nixel said:
Except that video isn't proof of that. He doesn't rear-end the truck, nor does he actually swerve suddenly. Given the distance he had it's very possible he could have stopped just to the left of the truck, but he didn't because the assumption was made (which I made too until the accident happens) that the truck was making a right hand turn.
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I didn't see the blinker on the truck. I was assuming the truck was stopping for the big truck.
 
steve220s said:
It might not have been smart, but to me it was legal (when comparing the situation to the HTA).
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Legal in Ontario? Not necessarily. While the HTA permits you to pass a car stopped or slowing to make a left if you can do so without leaving the pavement, it also stipulates that you may do so only if that pass can be done safely. That suggests that you can do so only if the way is clear.
150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;
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The oncoming left turner, when faced with the other left-turner, would have had a reasonable expectation that traffic would be stopped. He still should have proceeded with caution, but so too should the rider have. Had it happened here, the rider or any other vehicle doing same could possible be looking at charges for unsafe passing on right or even careless driving if the cop determines that the passing was not done using appropriate caution.
 
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I'm going to go with rider fault ..... BOTH TRUCKS SIGNAL = shared intersection, first of the colliding vehicles into the intersection was the truck giving him right of way if no other vehicle legally going through, illegal pass on the left (right in Canada) IN A SINGLE LANE.
STUPID MOVE ALL AROUND!
 
For arguments sake, I would debate that "the movement can be made in safety" refers to the overtaking of the turning vehicle, which was done safely (no collision there), but that the incident occured after with the oncoming truck who failed to yield to straight-through traffic.
 
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I still blame the rider, trying to pull a move like that at an intersection. I witnessed the same style of crash here in ottawa.
the rider was passing on the right side and plowed into a left turning car. ripped his leg off, a lady and I kept the guy awake till the paramedics showed up almost 20 minutes later. I was appointed in charge of loading his leg onto the stretcher as they moved him.
I felt really bad for him, but it was still his fault for that unsafe pass.
 
The bike is at fault, apart from passing a vehicle in the same lane (Might be allowed if lane splitting is legal) he also passed the car from the inside of the lane (Notice in SA they drive/ride on the left side), which is ILLEGAL in any country.
 
HA3AP said:
The bike is at fault, apart from passing a vehicle in the same lane (Might be allowed if lane splitting is legal) he also passed the car from the inside of the lane (Notice in SA they drive/ride on the left side), which is ILLEGAL in any country.
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Is that a typo? He passed on the outside.
 
jeffjones said:
I didn't see the blinker on the truck. I was assuming the truck was stopping for the big truck.
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Neither did I actually, but my instinct was to think it was turning right because of his movement in the lane. I think we both agree it was the riders fault, regardless of why, the accident was very preventable.
 
steve220s said:
Is that a typo? He passed on the outside.
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No not a typo, the traffic in SA is moving on the left, just like in UK or Japan etc. therefore by passing the vehicle on the left he used the inside of the lane. Just as you would if you'd pass a vehicle from the right in Canada.
 
HA3AP, I think you've got your insides and outsides mixed up. "Inside" usually refers to the side closest to the middle of the road, i.e. closest to oncoming traffic.
 
I was going to let it go, but yeah, I agree with daveyflakes. Inside is where oncoming traffic meets while outside is the shoulder.
 
play it back in 1080p mode and listen to the bike as he gets to the intersection. Does he not speed up slightly as he starts to move around the truck? That move should have been made with the brakes on, and buttload of shoulder and sightline checks. This is like riding along a long line of stopped traffic, scares the crap out of me to drive by in the same direction at more than about 10km/h.
 
Bikes fault, 100%.
If you can't see clearly, you don't go, I would have assumed that someone can't see me from the other direction, therefore I do not go... Also didn't see a signal on the truck in front, so I just would have stayed behind him.

I regularily pass on the right, especially on my morning ride to work as there is usually a line up of a few cars waiting to turn left in to one of the parking lots. I'll pass all the cars as long as they all have the left turn signal on. Where I do this, there is no other roadway to my right so nobody will be turning left in front of me. With the way traffic is on base, it is sometimes up to a minute of waiting for a car to get a chance to turn.

If it is an intersection with 4 directions and the vehicle in front is turning left, I will slow down until I am 100% sure I can see all the other traffic.

Grew up in the country where the road I live on is an 80, it's common to pass people making a left on the shoulder... They usually even move over in to the opposite lane so they don't slow you down too much.
 
rmemedic said:
I regularily pass on the right, especially on my morning ride to work as there is usually a line up of a few cars waiting to turn left in to one of the parking lots. I'll pass all the cars as long as they all have the left turn signal on.
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I thought that was illegal? Thought you could only pass cars within the same lane while their right turn signal is on
 
daveyflakes said:
HA3AP, I think you've got your insides and outsides mixed up. "Inside" usually refers to the side closest to the middle of the road, i.e. closest to oncoming traffic.
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From the inside meaning between the sidewalk and the vehicle, I'm form Eastern Europe and that's what we call it, although I do get your point.
 
silverbullet132 said:
I thought that was illegal? Thought you could only pass cars within the same lane while their right turn signal is on
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If the car had a right turn signal on, why would you try to pass them on the right??
The law states (as Turbo pointed out) you can pass to the right of a vehicle in the same lane if there is space, as long as that vehicle is intending to turn left.

If a car has a left signal on, and we're still moving pretty good I won't bother to pass until I know for sure, 100% that he is comitted to the turn.
I'm pretty picky on the circumstances where I'll do this. I'm pretty carefull in urban areas, I don't trust ANYONE and I make sure that I KNOW someone sees me before I take my chances.
 
rmemedic said:
If the car had a right turn signal on, why would you try to pass them on the right??
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I only pass a right signaling car on the right if I am going to turn right and he is taking too long. I usually pass them on the left, after checking that it is safe.
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