Advantages and disadvantages of graduated licensing?

[jc100]

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Juts curious, I know there's a few threads where this crops up but now seems like a good time to do it again. What do you think the advantages and disadvantages of graduated licensing might be if introduced here with respect to insurance, safety, culture and the motorcycle industry?

My own view...I'm heavily in favour of it. I was part of it in the UK as a teenager and I think it works to help riders develop. I think it helps to keep insurance rates a little lower and I think it helps the motorcycle industry in that they can introduce a greater range of bikes at all cc ranges to cater for all grades of riders. It reduces the peer pressure to get the biggest, most powerful bike you can before you have the baseline skillset to handle it. Taking peer pressure away means more people riding to ride, not to pose...the culture is different, I think the culture is a little better to be honest as there's not the same sneering about cc's and horsepower etc as everyone developed the same way in their riding careers.

Discuss.

 

[Flashmonkey]

We already have a graduated licensing system. It doesn't work. Not that the concept is flawed or anything, but because the people involved in implementing and enforcing such a system are morons.

Also, insurance will never go down. Not while there's money to be made.

The problems with our system are the people in the system. Good luck finding reform for that.

 

[jc100]

I should have been clearer...graduated as-in cc limits for either age or licensed experience (that's also up for discussion...ie a better licensing system?)

 

[Nwhiteside]

If I was king...

M1:
- 250cc limit
- must wait 120 days before upgrading to M2, unless taking a riders course -- then its 60 days wait (create added incentive for taking a riding course)

M2:
- 600cc limit

 

[Holmes]

I should have been clearer...graduated as-in cc limits for either age or licensed experience (that's also up for discussion...ie a better licensing system?)

I highly disagree with this! Thats like saying you can buy a civic with your G2 and a Vette with your G.

This is my first season, I started March 19th and now have 11,000km and no ****ing chicken strips. I also ride a 2010 GSX-R 600. Now why should I have been restricted? It is up to the rider to decide what he or she is capable of!

Oh ya it would not work because if that was the case I would have got my licence prior and just sat on it till I could get the 600cc.

 

[jc100]

I highly disagree with this! Thats like saying you can buy a civic with your G2 and a Vette with your G.

This is my first season, I started March 19th and now have 11,000km and no ****ing chicken strips. I also ride a 2010 GSX-R 600. Now why should I have been restricted? It is up to the rider to decide what he or she is capable of!

Oh ya it would not work because if that was the case I would have got my licence prior and just sat on it till I could get the 600cc.

Hey...I'm not arguing..just wanted to see points of view. But what we have now is that anyone with the cash but not the skills or discipline or maturity can get straight on a Busa.

 

[jc100]

What if a rider's ed course offered insurance benefits? Also an advanced rider's ed course?

 

[Flashmonkey]

Hey...I'm not arguing..just wanted to see points of view. But what we have now is that anyone with the cash but not the skills or discipline or maturity can get straight on a Busa.

It's my belief that that is their God given right. It makes no sense to me to burden the provincial or federal levels of government with trying to protect people from themselves. That's how police states get started.

The only way a real democracy can work is if people are left with the education and discipline to govern themselves. Government regulations will never be a subsitution for this.

 

[Myztyk]

We already have a graduated licensing system. It doesn't work. Not that the concept is flawed or anything, but because the people involved in implementing and enforcing such a system are morons.

Also, insurance will never go down. Not while there's money to be made.

The problems with our system are the people in the system. Good luck finding reform for that.

I had scathing responses about cc's and bike jesus...but then I decided it's not worth it and figured I would agree with Flashmonkey's post. It was well written.

 

[Jayv]

I highly disagree with this! Thats like saying you can buy a civic with your G2 and a Vette with your G.

This is my first season, I started March 19th and now have 11,000km and no ****ing chicken strips. I also ride a 2010 GSX-R 600. Now why should I have been restricted? It is up to the rider to decide what he or she is capable of!

Oh ya it would not work because if that was the case I would have got my licence prior and just sat on it till I could get the 600cc.

lol, you've survived 3 months.

 

[chiller]

if they asked for a vote on cc limitations for newer riders, I'd seriously consider it ...

while there are some that give the speech of god given rights, yadayada ... perhaps some degree of limits should be imposed on new riders. It seems to work for the european countries pretty well... I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

 

[dragenn]

I dont trust the new crop of riders. They talk nothing but specs, which isnt always practical. Always ready to jump from a 250cc -> 1000cc and can completely justify the jump. They talk like somehow they are invicible to crashing instead of being aware of the possiblity. The majority of SS ive seen thus far have been low sided.

In the end anyone capable of justify a track bike built for the street is in there beginning phases of riding. They have hair on their ball, but not much there with common sense.

 

[Jayv]

if they asked for a vote on cc limitations for newer riders, I'd seriously consider it ...

while there are some that give the speech of god given rights, yadayada ... perhaps some degree of limits should be imposed on new riders. It seems to work for the european countries pretty well... I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

Won't work here, H-D doesn't sell 125/250cc bikes.

 

[Jayv]

I dont trust the new crop of riders. They talk nothing but specs, which isnt always practical. Always ready to jump from a 250cc -> 1000cc and can completely justify the jump. They talk like somehow they are invicible to crashing instead of being aware of the possiblity. The majority of SS ive seen thus far have been low sided.

In the end anyone capable of justify a track bike built for the street is in there beginning phases of riding. They have hair on their ball, but not much there with common sense.

Same could be said for middle age men trying to relive their teenage years. They have plenty of disposable cash to throw down on a fast bike, cause yeah i rode a bike back on the farm in the 80's.

 

[Myztyk]

Won't work here, H-D doesn't sell 125/250cc bikes.

It's not just HD, no cruiser that size is any good. I think the CC think works well in a densely populated highly urbanised Euro environment. If you seek to buy a cruiser to enjoy traveling long distances in this country, you will not be able to do so with a cc limitation.

 

[Jayv]

It's not just HD, no cruiser that size is any good. I think the CC think works well in a densely populated highly urbanised Euro environment. If you seek to buy a cruiser to enjoy traveling long distances in this country, you will not be able to do so with a cc limitation.

A better argument would be to make the testing and handing out of licences harder to obtain in this Country, both cars and bikes.

 

[Myztyk]

A better argument would be to make the testing and handing out of licences harder to obtain in this Country, both cars and bikes.

I would completely agree with this.

 

[Flashmonkey]

A better argument would be to make the testing and handing out of licences harder to obtain in this Country, both cars and bikes.

This is how it should be anyway.

As mentioned before, while there's nothing wrong with a graduated licensing concept in theory, the practice always falls short. Bottom line, if they implement something like this, someone/some corporation/some level of government will find a way to profit from it, and it'll just turn into another cash grab with no appreciable real-world results in improved driver/rider training.

Those idiots take enough of my money, thanks.

 

[Holmes]

lol, you've survived 3 months.

Im not talking about surviving, I am talking about skill level. And yes my skill level is much higher than it should be.

Skill has nothing to do with staying alive, seasoned riders die all the time across the world. Its a known fact that being a biker is dangerous.

Oh and JC100 I know you weren't trying to argue and I do agree a new rider buying a busa IS ****ing moronic (well the busa is gay anyways). It goes the same for cars though. There is a kid in my town whos 17 and got a E46 M3, money buys wicked **** but not skills. Hopefully when these people in cars and on bikes, that they cant handle, crash they dont take others with them.

 

[SkyRider]

imo kinda annoying to base it purely on cc alone. should be based on hp and torque. ie, the ktm 690 only has 60hp, while a 600 SS with less cc but almost 2x the hp.

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