drunk idiots messing with my bike

[sinbin]

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Report what? They could go to the cops and claim that they had been drinking, and one of them accidentally puked on a bike and may even have fell against it. Then someone claiming to be the owner came out and grabbed their wallets, removed cash out of them before throwing the wallets back at them, then beat their *** down the street. Easily done. Your prints will be on the wallets. If they were to go and claim that you robbed them, how would you go about refuting that claim?

While you would have had legal cover to detain them for police, you had none for an extended beat-down and certainly none to relieve them of their wallets for even a second. Anyone with just a little bit of savvy could put you in a serious jackpot over your attempts to handle things "personally".

hahahhahahaa! ok stop now really hahhahaahhaa! You know there was a camera that showed the idiot tipping the bike over, why are you ignoring that fact to lend credence to your newest foray into fantasy?
Lets all play this game, how about the OP claims he chased them at which point both decided to apologise profusely and offer their wallets as security while they sent to the nearest bank machine to get money to cover the damage caused to the bike including the large scratches on expensive paint, scratched fairing and about another thousand dollars' worth of damage to expensive motorcycle parts.

Shall we continue this ridiculous charade of logical reasoning ?
As for "Arm holds" on two people to restrain them while the police respond, you might want to try that before offering such advice.

Are you bored Mr. Turbo? Is being the Devils advocate your sole source of entertainment?

 

[turbodish]

hahahhahahaa! ok stop now really hahhahaahhaa! You know there was a camera that showed the idiot tipping the bike over, why are you ignoring that fact to lend credence to your newest foray into fantasy?

The same security camera(s) that show their wrong act may also be showing your wrong act.

In any case, the OP handled it personally. It seems the two drunks have internalized the "personal" aspect of that response, and responded in a "personal" way by coming back to vandalize the bike, and there is nothing keeping them from doing it again and again. Recall from the OP that the tip-over happened after the beat-down. The personal beat-down plan worked really well for the OP, didn't it?

 

[mmmnaked]

It would've worked if he took their IDs :lol:

 

[rukus]

i call bs on OPs story.

lets see the security images

 

[mmmnaked]

It does sound very much made up.

I bet what happened was he saw the guys messing with his bike and he yelled something at which point they left, or maybe made fun of him in return. Then he went home and steamed over the situation, thinking of what he SHOULD'VE done but didn't have the brass to actually pull off.

 

[AGAVE]

Hey ep1x, good story, but it sounds like you don't hit very hard.
Stop by the west island one day and i'll show you how to knock out those bike pukers properly the first time around.

 

[sinbin]

The same security camera(s) that show their wrong act may also be showing your wrong act.

In any case, the OP handled it personally. It seems the two drunks have internalized the "personal" aspect of that response, and responded in a "personal" way by coming back to vandalize the bike, and there is nothing keeping them from doing it again and again. Recall from the OP that the tip-over happened after the beat-down. The personal beat-down plan worked really well for the OP, didn't it?

LOL! and therein lies yet another assumption to justify your argument. What assurance is there that the two wouldnt come back every day and do the same or worse?

As for the "capturing wrong acts" we were discussing an allegation of theft being made, which would by default have to have been away from the scrutiny of the camera for if the removal of the wallets and subsequent photographing of IDs were captured on camera your assertion that theft charges would be a realistic possibility, is false.

Refrain from feints; we were addressing your assertion that theft charges are possible, based on a hypothetical scenario you presented, along with the tenability of your assumption that the OP should possess the ability to restrain two individuals alone for an extended period of time.

The ideological analysis, or psychological consequences visited upon the recipients resulting from their mischief, that you have attempted to present above is not relevant to those points.

 

[short stop]

Well, technically OP *could* have made a citizen's arrest. Whether or not it would be practical or worthwhile I guess it what everyone's debating (well...everyone vs turbo).

OP, although it sounds like you lay the smackdown, I hope they don't come back for retribution. Seriously though, how much did you need to hit that guy? Either Agave's right and you need some punching lessons, or your story doesn't sound realistic.

 

[klr_guy]

Dear Penthouse Forum, I know this is going to sound like a crazy fantasy but every word of this story is true ...

 

[promac]

What are they gonna do? Call the cops?...to report what? "I was drunk and puked and kicked a bike and some dude took a piDc of my ID".

Assault & battery, robbery - btw, the victim wants the $1,000 cash back that you stole from his wallet. He has witnesses that saw you take his wallet, open it up and take something from it.

 

[AGAVE]

Dear Penthouse Forum, I know this is going to sound like a crazy fantasy but every word of this story is true ...

WTF? Finish the story man! :jerk:

 

[HorizonXP]

The number of people applauding what the OP did is appalling to me.

It's a bloody bike. It's just an expensive collection of nuts, bolts, plastic and metal. He was kicking your tire because he was bored and drunk. Was he an idiot? Of course, he was DRUNK! That didn't warrant you beating the crap out of him. Did you even try to ask him to stop?

Self-defense is responding with equal and like force. He wasn't attacking you, he was disrupting your property. But next time, boys and girls, like we learned in grade school, use your words, not your fists. The way the OP responded, he instantly escalated the situation.

Awful. Absolutely awful. It's like we're bloody animals.

 

[sinbin]

yah and OP has witnesses who saw the "robbed" pull a knife and attempt to stab him with it and uttered threats to come back and shoot him with a gun he has. enjoy!

 

[turbodish]

As for the "capturing wrong acts" we were discussing an allegation of theft being made, which would by default have to have been away from the scrutiny of the camera for if the removal of the wallets and subsequent photographing of IDs were captured on camera your assertion that theft charges would be a realistic possibility, is false.

Well, seeing as we're talking about hypotheticals...

If you're hypothetically able to restrain someone long enough to grab their wallet and take pictures of ID, then you're hypothetically able to detain them for police.

And on to hypotheticals, would it have been away from view of a camera as you assert? The OP claims to have followed the two down a public street. How many public and private surveillance cameras, whether know or unknown to the OP, might have been along that way? So now we potentially have a thug following and beating on a couple of people down the street where it may or may not have been captured on one or more surveillance cameras. We know there is at least one and maybe more people around to witness the goings-on.

Still going to reach into a pocket to grab a wallet, and then throw it back? Between that and the ongoing beat-down, it might look like a robbery in progress to an onlooker. Recall how the Chinese grocer was found? Onlookers who saw him and his friend grabbing and tying up the thief and then throwing him in the van thought they were seeing a kidnapping, and called 911.

So hypothetically we have a thug chasing after two victims on the street and beating them along the way, grabbing their wallets out of their pockets, throwing it back after a few seconds, and then leaving the two to pick up themselves and their wallets off the sidewalk. To an uninformed onlooker, it looks like a mugging. Someone comes running up to see if they're ok, makes a few comments on what they saw, and now these two seize on opportunity for some REAL payback and complain to police. They even have witnesses to back up that they were mugged, and your fingerprints on their wallets would just reinforce their claim. Embellish the story to include missing cash would be simple enough, and then you're in a predicament similar to this guy: http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?139661-What-to-do-potential-criminal-charges.

Great plan though.

 

[sinbin]

Well, seeing as we're talking about hypotheticals...

If you're hypothetically able to restrain someone long enough to grab their wallet and take pictures of ID, then you're hypothetically able to detain them for police.

And on to hypotheticals, would it have been away from view of a camera as you assert? The OP claims to have followed the two down a public street. How many public and private surveillance cameras, whether know or unknown to the OP, might have been along that way? So now we potentially have a thug following and beating on a couple of people down the street where it may or may not have been captured on one or more surveillance cameras. We know there is at least one and maybe more people around to witness the goings-on.

Still going to reach into a pocket to grab a wallet, and then throw it back? Between that and the ongoing beat-down, it might look like a robbery in progress to an onlooker. Recall how the Chinese grocer was found? Onlookers who saw him and his friend grabbing and tying up the thief and then throwing him in the van thought they were seeing a kidnapping, and called 911.

So hypothetically we have a thug chasing after two victims on the street and beating them along the way, grabbing their wallets out of their pockets, throwing it back after a few seconds, and then leaving the two to pick up their wallets. To an uninformed onlooker, it looks like a mugging. Someone comes running up to see if they're ok, makes a few comments on what they saw, and now these two seize on opportunity for some REAL payback and complain to police. They even have witnesses to back up that they were mugged, and your fingerprints on their wallets would just reinforce their claim. Embellish the story to include missing cash would be simple enough, and then you're in a predicament similar to this guy: http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?139661-What-to-do-potential-criminal-charges.

Great plan though.

Yet another assumption. Nothing provides assurance that being able to obtain their wallets equates to being able to detain them for an EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME!

As for my assertions: it was that had it been on the camera your original hypothetical scenario is invalid. Therefore the only way your assertions bear any validity is if the fake charges of theft you claim are tenable happened off camera.

As well the "witness" would have to provide evidence under oath he saw the OP remove cash, and then there is the matter of establishing how much cash. ?How do you know the OP won;t produce similar witnesses? How do you know a close by surveillance camera wont capture the whole thing clearly and prove no cash was removed?

Should we go on?

Given the many assumptions you have made, and after intertwining the numerous hypothetical permutations of improbable events you continue to conjure, I suppose we could conclude that possibly one could assume the OP is a "thug". (sigh)

I shocks me that I have to point this out to you again and again.

p.s. How can you compare this situation to a post on GTAM that addresses admitted theft of a wallet, where the dispute is about cash removed from it? PArticularly where the alleged thief was drunk and conducted the act and wasn't reacting to criminal acts upon his/her property?

 

[reciprocity]

Did you have 20oz gloves on??

You're big and strong enough to chase these guys down, mount and pummel them, but you inflict no real damage?

I call shenanigans.

 

[promac]

In any case, now the other two have the upper hand. There is nothing on the record as to their identities. They can come back with relative impunity under cover of dark and get payback after payback after payback for the beat-down, and there is little that the OP can do to stop it short of putting his bike into hiding.

You're absolutely right - it appears that they already did once, knocking over the bike, so it's quite probable they'll do it again. Who knows what they'll be capable of doing when they sober up. Payback may continue and escalate back and forth until someones's thrown in jail, seriously injured or dead. You can go to the police, but you'll likely be charged too.

 

[bobjohnson]

If you call and say that you have a vandal in custody, they will respond pretty quick. The cops will not book him for "illegally" restraining someone because it is quite legal to restrain someone if you have caught them red-handed while they were committing a criminal act. It's also legal to use reasonable violence against them as needed to keep them in custody if they should try to escape.

This is pure ********.

Try reporting a crime in progress and see how fast the police show up. There was a drunk driver who took at least THIRTY MINUTES to make it through the intersection just outside my apartment. I was woken up by a cab driver mashing his horn as she almost hit him. She was screaming out of her window, inching forward, reversing back to the line, trying to make turns into almost smashing into people and oncoming cars, in the oncoming lane instead of her own... I called the police and waited 30 minutes (from about 2:10am to 2:40am, because i was fairly sure she really was going to end up killing someone and I would have gotten dressed on gone downstairs to be a witness to any accident) but no cop EVER showed up. She ended up finally making it through the intersection and i waited 10 more minutes to see if the cops arrived. Nope. And this is downtown toronto, directly at the corner of 4 precincts so you cant tell me there were no cops available to deal with an imminent danger to public safety.

I also called the cops to report a dude wandering around with a gun in the parking lot across the street after he got his *** kicked by 3 towtruck drivers (didnt see what started it). He was there again for about another 20 minutes, cops never showed up. Ive called the police for a bunch of other "crimes in progress" and never had a cop show up. Crimes more dangerous than vandalism. And ive also seen cops witness crimes ("random" assaults, running red lights and almost smashing into people, almost running people over while making a left or right turn) and they just sit there in their ****ing car without a care in the world.

Not to mention that guy (whos already been brought up) that detained a thief and was charged with a crime while the thief was let go. **** like this PROVES to me that the police will not be there to protect you when you need it. I dont even bother calling the police when i see something anymore, because why waste my time? Maybe if you live in a small town the police still care or are bored enough to respond to actual complaints. In Toronto? Not gonna happen. You ever notice if you call for police and ambulance, the ambulance always shows up a good 10-20 minutes, if that, before the cop?

 

[turbodish]

This is pure ********.

I went after an impaired driver after said impaired driver abandoned the car and fled into a park after running from a hit and run. When I caught and dragged that impaired driver back to the street just two or three minutes later, there were already two police cruisers there and four more arrived with seconds after that. Someone called 911.

You bring up that Chinese storekeeper. For that one the police arrived within minutes of getting a 911 call about a kidnapping in progress.

Maybe your experience is different, but mine is that 911 calls get responded to plenty quick in most cases unless all hell has broken loose alll over. Crimes in progress qualify for 911, as does holding a suspect for police.

 

[rideitlikeyoustoleit]

This story does seem farfetched just because unless they were younger kids, I doubt grown ***, drunk men would run away from one person. That's just my opinion but it's still possible.

The way the OP did it, yes. Had the OP simply taken him down and used only the force needed to hold him until the cops came, no. You can use reasonable force to hold someone in custody if you're caught them committing a criminal offence such as vandalizing property.

i lose it and start chasing him.. i chase him on st. laurent blvd, and tackle him to the ground, get on top of him and i am feeding him with as many punches as i can and grabbing his shirt, lifting him up and using my force so he can lose his breath while he hits the ground.

Sounds like assault and battery to me.

In any case, now the other two have the upper hand. There is nothing on the record as to their identities. They can come back with relative impunity under cover of dark and get payback after payback after payback for the beat-down, and there is little that the OP can do to stop it short of putting his bike into hiding.

+1 on this. They know where you live, they know what your bike is, they probably know you're plates. So watch out.

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