Track riding miscoception - by street riders

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fastar1 said:
Doesn't it cut both ways recip? If he can't know his actual track speed than neither can you.
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Correct, but he is quite adamant that his statement should be taken as fact based on his experience.

I made those statements in the same spirit as his and by the logic of this discussion, they should be taken as fact.(now the only way to see who is correct is a day of discovery)

If he was interested in a full day of learning, I'd offer to provide this myself, I have several professionally built bikes available for rent, leathers, boots, helmets etc, but he only wants to do one or 2 laps, unfortunately, this is something I'm unable to do.
 
reciprocity said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA, this is funny.

I've had a bunch of student's like this in the past, they believe the training pace is below them, I've yet to see any of them prove this.

Anyone that THINK'S they are fast on the street show's up at trackdays and is VERY quickly put in their place.

for someone that's never set foot or turned a wheel on a racetrack, you seem to have a large number of bold statements to make.
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How? Lets start here where you took my observation which may be right or wrong and implied that I was going on like I was ready to do 200kmh right off the bat. Now your claimed that I made multiple "bold" statements. First off where? I said that's about my pace and I could push it a bit more with ease that's all I said so what other statements did I make? On top of that it would seem that you compleatly ignored any of my actual question and went in for the ha ha ha what a fool attitude. Lead to post like zx600 "if you think your fast prove it" when did I say I thought I was fast? In the vids pace lap were they going fast to any of you experienced track riders? Probably not. yet you go on like I'm boosting that I'm gonna be a natural. What insults me is your weird interpretation of my "statements" meaning more then one which I can't find anywhere. In fact all I kept saying is that I want to further inorove my skills no matter how much or little I may have. Yet somehow you've turned this thing into me claiming how fast I think I am or how I think I'm gonna dominant the track. That's b.s. and I find it insulting.

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reciprocity said:
If he was interested in a full day of learning, I'd offer to provide this myself, I have several professionally built bikes available for rent, leathers, boots, helmets etc, but he only wants to do one or 2 laps, unfortunately, this is something I'm unable to do.
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Again that was NOT me. I never said I only wanted to do two laps, wrong poster. I'd definitely rather go for a day then 2 laps. And I'm still looking for where I claimed I was so skillful? All I said is I'm at a point in which the streets are holding my progression of gaining more skill back due to saftey and legality. Who's post are you reading anyway?

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Venom01 said:
How? Lets start here where you took my observation which may be right or wrong and implied that I was going on like I was ready to do 200kmh right off the bat. Now your claimed that statements. First off where? I said that's about my pace and that's all I said so what other statements did I make? On top of that it would seem that you compleatly ignored any of my actual question and went in for the ha ha ha what a fool attitude. Lead to post like zx600 "if you think your fast prove it" when did I say I thought I was fast? In the vids pace lap were they going fast to any of you experienced track riders? Probably not. yet you go on like I'm boosting that I'm gonna be a natural. What insults me is your weird interpretation of my "statements" meaning more then one which I can't find anywhere. In fact all I kept saying is that I want to further inorove my skills no matter how much or little I may have. Yet somehow you've turned this thing into me claiming how fast I think I am or how I think I'm gonna dominant the track. That's b.s. and I find it insulting.

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Why are you getting so upset? For someone that doesn't care, you sound like you're quite angry.

Again, you've made a number of statements without proper knowledge to do so and you get angry when these statements are challenged.

learning on the track rarely involves riding quickly at the novice(school) level, actually, quite the opposite, its FAR more beneficial to slow everything down, regardless of how fast the student believes they can do the exercise.

You, however immediately wanted to know how you could get out of riding "SLOW" because you felt your skill set was above riding at speed without even knowing WHY the exercise was being done slowly.

the most important statement you'll ever hear about going fast on the racetrack is, that you have to slow down to go fast.

This is applicable at all levels of riding.

It is quite simple to mimic something you see being done, but understanding why you are performing a specific action at a specific time is where real learning starts.
 
I have a suggestion for both of the arguers here. When you want to point out something that the other poster said, please go back and specifically identify the post in which they said the thing you want to point out. Every post in this and every other thread is numbered. Refer to that post number. Or quote the actual text.

Doing this avoids mixing up what different people are saying. It also, just maybe, occasionally, might cause you to realize that YOU are wrong and it would be better off to not say whatever it was that you were about to say.

It also means you had better be accountable for whatever you say.

The internet is a tool for fostering misunderstanding ...
 
Venom01 said:
. Lead to post like zx600 "if you think your fast prove it" when did I say I thought I was fast? In the vids pace lap were they going fast to any of you experienced track riders? Probably not.

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Zx backs off and goes to practice his skills on Motogp 2012



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reciprocity said:
Why are you getting so upset? For someone that doesn't care, you sound like you're quite angry.

Again, you've made a number of statements without proper knowledge to do so and you get angry when these statements are challenged.

learning on the track rarely involves riding quickly at the novice(school) level, actually, quite the opposite, its FAR more beneficial to slow everything down, regardless of how fast the student believes they can do the exercise.

You, however immediately wanted to know how you could get out of riding "SLOW" because you felt your skill set was above riding at speed without even knowing WHY the exercise was being done slowly.

the most important statement you'll ever hear about going fast on the racetrack is, that you have to slow down to go fast.

This is applicable at all levels of riding.

It is quite simple to mimic something you see being done, but understanding why you are performing a specific action at a specific time is where real learning starts.
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What number if statements are you referring to? I don't see it at all. Sorry I'm not ****** as these post sound just confused as hell as were your getting this? I'm still looking for multiple statements about racing I've made when I'm constantly saying I'm wanting to take this class to improve or learn to be a better rider and then you go on like I'm challenging you and I just don't see where your getting this from?

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ZX600 said:
Zx backs off and goes to practice his skills on Motogp 2012



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Totally mis quoted you and I'm sorry for that....I also quite jelous you got 2012 that's not on the Xbox this year.

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MotoGp 2012 is a horrible game, from what I could tell. I downoaded the demo and there was no front brake control???? Good god, what happened? Go back to Street Fighter, Capcom. :)
 
Guys I sick of having to use this phone to post, it sucks. Ill be back when my laptop gets back to me. Anywho despite how off the rails this got there is a lot of great info here. Hopefully a nice mod will delete all this crap back to the good stuff. I'm going to look into a class a.s.a.p. and will be looking forward to some track time and mabey more to come.

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Venom01 said:
What number if statements are you referring to? I don't see it at all. Sorry I'm not ****** as these post sound just confused as hell as were your getting this? I'm still looking for multiple statements about racing I've made when I'm constantly saying I'm wanting to take this class to improve or learn to be a better rider and then you go on like I'm challenging you and I just don't see where your getting this from?

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Venom01 said:
I just feel that after 10 years of street riding my biking skills are pushing what i can do legally on the road.
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Venom01 said:
That's kinda what I was afraid of, I ride like that already. I know with confidence I could take those laps even faster then that with ease.

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Venom01 said:
II know what I can do and more important what I still cant do. And even though my current bike is not by at all means moderen or super quick I still know that I can't take it to the limits of its abilities. I can ride, o can hold my own.

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Sorry man, you probably are a nice guy, but here you are sounding a bit standoffish and probably that's why you getting some slack.


SweetOnion brakes are for pussies, that's why they were removed from motogp 12
 
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ZX600 said:
Sorry man, you probably are a nice guy, but here you are sounding a bit standoffish and probably that's why you getting some slack
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OK however I don't know how those are commingle off as stand off-ish, because in no way did I intend them to be. Mabey its the magic of the internet?
Either way goodnight.



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Venom01 said:
As a person who really wants to try the track that is a very disappointing thing to hear. I don't think I can afford to ride both street and track now. I just feel that after 10 years of street riding my biking skills are pushing what i can do legally on the road. I want to hit the track to push it a bit but I don't want to give up the street either.
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I think this sentence was misunderstood. It doesn't take much to reach the very low boundaries set by the traffic laws ... it also doesn't take a whole lot of skill to go fast in a straight line ... I'd say it's quite likely that 10 years of road riding could make someone have enough experience to go beyond what the laws allow, the bar is set pretty low ...

Venom01 said:
That's kinda what I was afraid of, I ride like that already. I know with confidence I could take those laps even faster then that with ease.
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This was the next statement that was misunderstood. I spot-checked a couple lap times in that Youtube video; follow-the-leader did about 1:12 early on and 1:09 at the end. I don't known Venom01's experience but I would say that the average first-time track rider is going to be slower than that until they get some instruction (either formal or otherwise). It's not the point of follow-the-leader to go as fast as possible; it's to show the correct lines and watch for body positioning, smoothness, etc. Technique and smoothness come first; the lap times come later.
 
Lap time comparison, just to give some context. From www.mylaps.com anyone can look up the results from 2010 RACE round 1, Nelson track (same track as above). Novice 600 winner was doing 0:59's, Amateur 600 was doing 0:55's, Pro 600 was doing 0.53's.
 
Brian P said:
I have a suggestion for both of the arguers here. When you want to point out something that the other poster said, please go back and specifically identify the post in which they said the thing you want to point out. Every post in this and every other thread is numbered. Refer to that post number. Or quote the actual text.

Doing this avoids mixing up what different people are saying. It also, just maybe, occasionally, might cause you to realize that YOU are wrong and it would be better off to not say whatever it was that you were about to say.

It also means you had better be accountable for whatever you say.

The internet is a tool for fostering misunderstanding ...
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I'm with you there, Brian. It looks like there's a fair bit of mis-assigning of statements there. Going back and re-reading would likely defuse this.
 
Which is the better school between turn2 and racer5? This is on my to-do this summer but I need a program that rents a bike, no way im taking my nearly new bike with street plastics to the track.
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