Venom01
Well-known member
That's kinda what I was afraid of, I ride like that already. I know with confidence I could take those laps even faster then that with ease.
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Track riding miscoception - by street riders
- Thread starter Metastable
- Start date
That's kinda what I was afraid of, I ride like that already. I know with confidence I could take those laps even faster then that with ease.
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Venom01
Well-known member
How is riding well within your abilitys and not around cars or high traffic areas being a knob? Weaving in and out of traffic, splitting lanes, wheelies up and down the highways. That's riding like a knob.
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you just said the same thing he did
SO what happened to you cause I have seen you ride on the street
Venom01
Well-known member
SO what happened to you cause I have seen you ride on the street
Sorry, what?
*edit*
Oh,lol
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I had been investigating such an option to see if there is anything available for a pay-per track deal or half day type thing. Sadly, I have yet to find anything or know of any track that will accommodate such request.
Venom01
Well-known member
I can't see the track making any money doing that to be honest and no one is going to want to loose money. While it could get few more people into the sport it would seem to me that anyone who really wants to try the track will. Me, I'm trying to figure out what route is best for me. My biggest problem seems to be that I don't have any friends that ride or are even into motorcycles. Going to the track alone seems like a risk. What if I get hurt? Who would I have with me to get me and my gear home? If I used my bike how would I get it there? I can only imagine how physically tired one could get doing a track day and a ride back to 'sauga might not be the best plan. Like I said never done the track. Don't know anyone who does. I'm lost here.
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Re "I don't ever plan to go racing, what will riding on the track do for me" ...
Put it this way. The people whose company I most enjoy while riding on the street, are almost all riders who have extensive racetrack experience. Mostly pavement but some dirt, too.
Why?
1. We have nothing to prove to each other. Some members of the core group (mostly not on GTAM - we've known each other for 20-ish years, long before GTAM existed) are faster than I am. Some can certainly do better wheelies than I can (I suck at that). Know what ... it doesn't matter. We've all been on the track with each other at some point. There's no racing on the street because there's no point. Top-speed contests don't happen (unless I'm on my 125).
2. We all know the correct line through corners. We all know with reasonable accuracy what the rider in front is going to do before they do it.
3. We all trust and respect each other's abilities. If I have to brake or change my cornering line for whatever reason, it's reasonably assured that the rider behind would have seen the same hazard at the same time, and would have known what I was going to do at the same time I was actually doing it. No worries about getting hit from behind.
And as a result of this ...
4. Collectively, we almost never crash. Granted, this is something that's never 100% assured, and we do have a "Captain Pavement" award for the dubious distinction of whoever in the group is the last one to have hit the ground on the street (racetrack crashes don't count). I had it for a while, thanks to a car that turned left in front of me in Tennessee. But, crashes among the group are rare enough that sometimes we forget who currently owns it ...
I can point to quite a number of street riders who started riding on the track and who, as a result, have gotten both faster *and safer* in leaps and bounds.
Put it this way. The people whose company I most enjoy while riding on the street, are almost all riders who have extensive racetrack experience. Mostly pavement but some dirt, too.
Why?
1. We have nothing to prove to each other. Some members of the core group (mostly not on GTAM - we've known each other for 20-ish years, long before GTAM existed) are faster than I am. Some can certainly do better wheelies than I can (I suck at that). Know what ... it doesn't matter. We've all been on the track with each other at some point. There's no racing on the street because there's no point. Top-speed contests don't happen (unless I'm on my 125).
2. We all know the correct line through corners. We all know with reasonable accuracy what the rider in front is going to do before they do it.
3. We all trust and respect each other's abilities. If I have to brake or change my cornering line for whatever reason, it's reasonably assured that the rider behind would have seen the same hazard at the same time, and would have known what I was going to do at the same time I was actually doing it. No worries about getting hit from behind.
And as a result of this ...
4. Collectively, we almost never crash. Granted, this is something that's never 100% assured, and we do have a "Captain Pavement" award for the dubious distinction of whoever in the group is the last one to have hit the ground on the street (racetrack crashes don't count). I had it for a while, thanks to a car that turned left in front of me in Tennessee. But, crashes among the group are rare enough that sometimes we forget who currently owns it ...
I can point to quite a number of street riders who started riding on the track and who, as a result, have gotten both faster *and safer* in leaps and bounds.
You will find those friends ... at the racetrack.
If you go to a *decent* track day, and you don't fill the role of village idiot, we will all take care of each other.
Pick-up truck, van (most minivans will work), or small trailer, take your pick. A little trailer that you can tow with a Civic will get the job done.
Venom01
Well-known member
HAHAHAHAHAHA, this is funny.
I've had a bunch of student's like this in the past, they believe the training pace is below them, I've yet to see any of them prove this.
Anyone that THINK'S they are fast on the street show's up at trackdays and is VERY quickly put in their place.
for someone that's never set foot or turned a wheel on a racetrack, you seem to have a large number of bold statements to make.
Metastable
Well-known member
Videos are deceiving. For the first couple of sessions you could FOR SURE ride faster than the pace the instructors are going at. After that you are mostly on your own, but they are keeping an eye out and asking you to practice certain things. In the afternoon when you follow the instructor, they go at your pace.... if you go faster, so will they. Trust me, you will not be bored. Also, let me emphasize that you SHOULDN'T go balls out when you first get there. Take in what they are saying. I have seen quite a few guys who were the faster dudes in the morning... then by the afternoon, they haven't gotten any quicker, but they are getting passed lots. They never tried to learn... and you can't learn if you are riding near your personal limit.
If you have an Econoline Van, then you are golden. You can easily fit 2 bikes in there. If you want to find someone else to go to the trackday with you, just post up you are going to XX trackday and you have space for another bike. Or you can just post up asking who is going to XX trackday and you can meet up with folks at the track. It is VERY easy to meet up with folks at the track and usually most trackday guys I have met are awesome folks. If you get banged up.... people will figure out a way to get you home. However, as long as you keep things to your skill level, you will be fine.
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Thanks for this break down
Since you asked..... my last track day was at TMP/ with Turn2 for an evening session. Cost me $50 for entry fee. A few dollars in masking tape to tape up the bike and lights. Water is free to replace the coolant. And a tank of gas which is around $15.
So, total outlay, was under $100, and we got to blast around an open track for 4 hours at any speed with full marshalls and ambulance.
Cheaper than a plane ticket and shipping the bike to the Nurburgring.
A lap or two? Why the hell would anybody take all the trouble to get to the track and want to do that little? I need minimum 2 laps just to get my tires warmed up.
.
Venom01
Well-known member
I don't see what's so funny, I'd never say that unless I really thought I could. Are you as much of a dick to your students as well?
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Keep in mind the tech requirements may cost you, there's a link on that page. You need a one-piece or two-piece wraparound zipper suit, and track boots, for example.
I'm thinking perhaps one of the reasons the 'ring can be so cheap is that they don't have the tort laws there that we have here. This is how they can have the IOM TT and we can't, or open access to rally races in Europe while here spectators are hearded into a few pre-selected viewing areas. How that relates to this subject is that organizers have a responsibility to make sure you as much safe gear and bike prep as can reasonably be demanded from you. So your cost goes up.
The bottom line is you first time on the track isn't likely to cost you less than $500, and if you decide to stick with track your costs will only escalate (though the costs will spread out so each track day costs less). You have to decide if you will benefit from the track day enough to warrant the cost, either for the enjoyment of the day itself or as a means of assessing your interest in pursuing more track days in the future.
My take is for anyone who even has a passing interest in trying track, do a school first. They cover your gear and the bike prep too. Of course some just can't afford it, but then they won't be able to afford track days either. And doing a single lap, or even just a few laps, around any track isn't going to tell you anything about your skill level or your level of interest in pursuing it. Like I said, there's a different purpose for pay-per-lap at the 'ring.
That's what I did.
It's funny because EVERY street rider that thinks they are fast and skilled has this attitude.
1 of 2 things happen.
they quickly discover how poor their riding skills are and start paying attention or, they continue to believe they already know everything and they never progress any further.
I say the same thing to the fight student's I've had in the past when they come in to "LEARN" to fight, but they believe the are already UFC material, dispite Never having been in a sanctioned fight in their life.
SweetOnion
Well-known member
Not sure if it's already been said as this thread is huge but the cost of lapping the Nurburgring that was posted is PER LAP!!!!!
Venom01
Well-known member
Now this is a great answer! So your not stuck in group formation all day then? Not that I have a problem with that. I mean I'm sure as a first time tracker you are always bound to learn something new or improve on, that would seem to be the whole point. I just don't want to be stuck pacing the behind someone holding you back a bit. If their abilities are greater then your and can pick it up for you a bit for you to follow that's awesome!
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Venom01
Well-known member
If I thought I knew everything then why would I be asking questions about taking a racing school course and not just skipping that and doing a track day?
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Don't sweat it over which skill level you're in, the purpose there is simply to keep people from tripping over each other on the track. You won't learn anything different in different levels.
I would highly recommend anyone with zero track experience sign up for the beginner groups. I had tons of track experience and knew Nelson like the back of my hand but I stil signed up for rookie and don't regret it. Even if you end up going slower than you'd like, you will still be able to determine your comfort level with the whole experience. And speed isn't the point anyways. Getting a feel for the racing line, vision, smoothness, these are the things you will be working on first.
But it's your call, don't sign up for beginner just because I said so!
