Parry Sound Sport Bike Rally! Use it or lose it!!!!

[johnny da bull]

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The traditional location of the rally was the Foley Fairgrounds. For whatever reason, it was moved downtown. I haven't gone the last couple of years, apparently it's back to Foley. I don't have a problem with it one way or the other.

Having this happen on the same weekend as a race weekend results in at least some loss of attendance. www.cdnsuperbike.com and www.shannonville.com and www.soaracing.ca have the schedules in question. Also www.vrra.ca for what it's worth.

But the big problem ... is HTA 172.

If everyone is scared of the cops enforcing the letter of the law - if they see a front wheel just a teeny bit off the ground and the bike is seized, or if some cop sees a bunch of bikes travelling together a bit above the speed limit and calls it "racing" and seizes the whole lot - then it is NO FUN and this is what *everyone* is scared of.

I know that in the past, there was often a fair amount of leniency shown, I've seen it myself. And I know it's too much to ask of the OPP to state in black and white "We're not enforcing HTA 172 for the duration of the weekend". But ... It's a big issue.

If we all think realistically about this problem, it is very simple, unless you are riding like a real butthead, in a city street where pedestrians are, I really doubt if you are going to be nailed under HTA172. One would think we could be rational human beings and just ride without having to catwalk, stoppie or set a new land speed record down highway 400, after all, you are being given a place to do your speed runs ect... Do we have to do it where we are not supposed to?

 

[nakkers]

If we all think realistically about this problem, it is very simple, unless you are riding like a real butthead, in a city street where pedestrians are, I really doubt if you are going to be nailed under HTA172. One would think we could be rational human beings and just ride without having to catwalk, stoppie or set a new land speed record down highway 400, after all, you are being given a place to do your speed runs ect... Do we have to do it where we are not supposed to?

Johnny,

I don't think there would be any issues in or around town. It's the getting there part. If this was a cruiser event, you'd have a bunch of loud baggers and choppers riding two wide going slightly over the speed limit or even in some cases below. I know myself, if I was riding my little 500R along with anyone else that was riding something "sporting' in nature, it would be hard to maintain a constant and respectable speed the whole way there. Especially as you get north of Barrie. It would be ripe pickings for any OPP. And it's a long walk home or a long ride as a pilon. I couldn't imagine trying to "tour" up there on a SS of any kind. And I'm a pretty slow old fart that chugs along on the Harley more than the 500R.

I think Brian's point is very much a reality. But, I'm just one fella with a keyboard and an opinion.

 

[Brian P]

If we all think realistically about this problem, it is very simple, unless you are riding like a real butthead, in a city street where pedestrians are, I really doubt if you are going to be nailed under HTA172. One would think we could be rational human beings and just ride without having to catwalk, stoppie or set a new land speed record down highway 400, after all, you are being given a place to do your speed runs ect... Do we have to do it where we are not supposed to?

The idiot riders is NOT what I am talking about. I am talking about the possibility of overenthusiastic enforcement of HTA 172. To exaggerate in the other direction, 1 km/h above the speed limit could be interpreted as "a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed", and who is to define what "a manner that indicates an intention to chase another motor vehicle" means. Any group of riders 1 km/h above the speed limit could be at risk from an overly diligent police officer.

You know the possibility exists. It can happen. Any cop can say anything they want and there is nothing you can do about it. I suspect that a lot of people won't attend this unless the police issue a written "We're not enforcing this", and I'm quite sure that isn't going to happen.

I FULLY REALIZE that the OPP has shown quite a bit of leniency in the past in this regard. But now, with the way the laws are right now? Not worth the risk unless something changes. I'll ride somewhere else.

 

[omnivore]

Brian P has hit the nail on the head. From 2000-2004 I went to Parry Sound and saw the leniency forst hand. Wheelies and stoppies during the Thunderrun, in front of uniformed OPP officers, to put on a show of sorts for the town's clapping locals, was the norm. Now I'd be terrified to dare try anything of that sort.

I don't ride like a moron. In fact, even having the fastest bike on a number of group rides, I have had a umner of times where I'd fall behind, and the group pull over and wait for me becasue I refuse to join a 10 bike parade and buzz traffic at 180+ in cottage country. However, there is no one stopping a cop who's having bad day from getting a hard on for any one of us Ninja-boys. Even if the charges won't stick and the cop knows it, you are still out a bike, a licence, and a grand at the very least. No Thanks!
I ride in the mountains in the USA becasue of HT172A specifically. It's just as close as Barrie, and it's deserted, beautiful, and welcoming to bikers.

 

[johnny da bull]

Brian P has hit the nail on the head. From 2000-2004 I went to Parry Sound and saw the leniency forst hand. Wheelies and stoppies during the Thunderrun, in front of uniformed OPP officers, to put on a show of sorts for the town's clapping locals, was the norm. Now I'd be terrified to dare try anything of that sort.

I don't ride like a moron. In fact, even having the fastest bike on a number of group rides, I have had a umner of times where I'd fall behind, and the group pull over and wait for me becasue I refuse to join a 10 bike parade and buzz traffic at 180+ in cottage country. However, there is no one stopping a cop who's having bad day from getting a hard on for any one of us Ninja-boys. Even if the charges won't stick and the cop knows it, you are still out a bike, a licence, and a grand at the very least. No Thanks!
I ride in the mountains in the USA becasue of HT172A specifically. It's just as close as Barrie, and it's deserted, beautiful, and welcoming to bikers.

OK then, it would seem we have now gotten to the meat and potatos of the subject, and I can 100% agree that no one wants the fine or to lose their ride over going to the rally, but this opens up some interesting conversation. 1st , if the town or Parry Sound put a deal together with the police, and a little stunting and leaniency was allowed, do we not think that it would be just a matter of time before someone's testosterone went overboard and went too far, and ended up causing a problem. If and when this happened, the whole situation would just get worse and the police would come down on us with a 2 ton hammer. I also understand the need to open up the throttle a bit on the 400 on the way up as well, expecially considering most sport bikes are just heading up Saturday and returning the same day, everyone wants to get there as fast as possible , and why not, the road is not that busy, but once again, where is the line to be drawn on speed? It would be a shame to lose this gathering place that we have been given, so why not try to come up with answers that we as riders can live with, that can also be accepted by the authoities. Any suggestions are appreciated and remember, i have already brought this thread to the attention of the organizers of the rally, so hopefully they will try to evaluate suggestions that are doable as they apply to the rally! :happy3:

 

[dankyyz]

If people are "afriad" to go to a sport bike rally cause they wont be able to ride oustside the law, then i say screw them. The gig will be better off without them. If the venue is apropiate. People can camp. Maybe live music, and people can stroll around a bit with a beer in their hand and hang with their buddies, it will be a success.

Idiots will ride drunk. Maybe get busted. Someone will smoke a joint in front of the wrong person and get busted. Maybe.

Standard biker event.

Putting it downtown under everyones noses was a mistake. The fairground is the way to go.

 

[inreb]

If people are "afriad" to go to a sport bike rally cause they wont be able to ride oustside the law, then i say screw them.

You haven't read any of the finer points in this thread, have you?

 

[dankyyz]

You haven't read any of the finer points in this thread, have you?

......mhayyyyybeee.....

I did read a few where people were bitching about cops and wheelies and such.And how "the love is gone" from the local PoPo. Does that not qualify my comment?

 

[inreb]

......mhayyyyybeee.....

I did read a few where people were bitching about cops and wheelies and such.And how "the love is gone" from the local PoPo. Does that not qualify my comment?

"outside the law" being the operative phrase. Do we need to rehash the HTA 172 vagueness again? noooooooo.........

 

[johnny da bull]

"outside the law" being the operative phrase. Do we need to rehash the HTA 172 vagueness again? noooooooo.........

I have to say, it is just too bad that the worries of the vagueness of a law should have to destroy what was once an excellent time, but when I read all the threads here, it would seem that that is the biggest issue, other than that it is just petty bickering of where the event is and how it is being operated. Those issues can be changed by the attendees by simply saying something, but the law is the law. That being said, there is a place to have some fun and screw around and a place not to. The place not to is simply in plain sight. If everyone behaves themselves on the main roads and operates within the law, there should be no problems. When you want to have a little fun (stoppies, wheelies ect...) simply take a moment and assess your souroundings. Have your buds check up and down the backroad you are on and then enjoy. If you do this, no one gets hurt (except yourself if you screw up) and no one is the wiser. It is unfortunate that this is our new reality, but it is and we all have to learn to work within it. :happy3:

 

[omnivore]

Without some spirited riding in and around the Parry Sound area, the rally in pointless as far as I am concerned. Sometimes a trip for me is about the destination, and other times it's about the route. For the Sportbike Rally, it has to be about the destination, cuz God knows the route to it is an absolute bore (403/401/400). If there isn't anything for me to do at the destination, I haven't any reason to go. I can go anywhere, more comveniently, and listen to music and have a beer with my buddies. My buddy really pressured me to attend this yr, but he only wanted to go for top speed testing of his Busa. Wasn't enough incentive for me, so I declined.

As far as people maybe taking "fun" too far if leniency was the order of the day, it will happen, you're right. In 2000 I watched some drunk idiotswheelie in the CDN Tireparking lot, right before the awards ceremony. They were from Wisconsin, on borrowed bikes, and we all found out they were drunk, right after they wheelied their borrowed bikes into a line of parked bikes, crashed, and split their engine cases open spilling oil everywhere, and causing a domino effect to the parked bikes. They could have hit any one of a thousand pedestrians milling about waiting for the awards ceremony to begin. So idiocy isn't only limited to today-even when the cops let things slide, the morons were there.

 

[Brian P]

A while back, the topic of the choice of date came up. The Sportbikerally website still has 2009 information on it, which does not help matters (!) but if we assume that the Sportbike Rally is on its traditional weekend (the weekend after Canada Day long weekend), it conflicts with SOAR round 3 at Cayuga, PCSB national at St-Eustache (QC), and VRRA at North Bay.

Can't be the weekend before because that's Canada Day and it also conflicts with PCSB national at Shannonville.

But the weekend after (July 15) doesn't conflict with any race weekend in the area.

 

[HERBXX]

I went up there once a few years ago, it was ok. Out the roads we were getting the cops ahead signal every 2 minutes from other bikes we were meeting. I usually try to avoid places I know cops will be looking for bikes behaving badly . Of course I am aware there can be speed traps everywhere ,but why ride where you know there will be speed traps every where. Maybe the speed traps are even justified because a lot of gathering do attract their share of idiots that ruin it for the rest.

Maybe some one could organize flash mob style rallies . that would be cool !

 

[Metastable]

Showing my age a bit.... I went up a couple of times.....back around 2001-2003 era. After that the dates just didn't work out for me for various reasons.... I think one year it was on the same weekend as the Laguna Seca GP... Mosport whatever... then I sold my street bike for reasons not related to HTA172. Back in the day, I don't remember too many cops. Ya sure, there were a few, but I never got the feeling there were any more than what you'd see on any given weekend up north.

I'll be honest, I don't think I would risk being with a bunch of motorcycles even if everyone was riding responsibly. With HTA172 hanging over everything, you just need a cop who's having a bad day to make your life a mess whether you deserve it or not. One of the nice things about the rally was the ability to hit up some nice roads nearby. Some of those roads are safely ridden at near the 50kph over mark..... I mean really.... it would be difficult to keep the speed checked even if you're taking it very easy. Now you might say ooooooooooo 50 over, you must be a lunatic. No.... that 50 over is in TOTAL control without even coming any where near to a panic moment. Keep in mind I've seen guys do 200+ on those same roads.... so 50 over can be done even if you didn't want to. You have to ride in a manner that you are always purposely slowing down. That's not fun... and for those instances, I'm glad I don't have a street bike anymore... so I don't even get tempted to have to ride this way.

Side note -> At the end of the day, I know we need some type of limit. However what is the difference between a sign saying 50 or 60 or 80 kph here and one that says 100 or 110 in other parts of the world? I've been on many roads elsewhere at are comparable to a road here.... and there is a difference of 40 sometimes even 60 kph to our limits. At some point you begin to wonder why our limits are so low in certain spots. 60 kph on a fairly straight road that is divided? Seriously? I've seen 120 on an undivided road with one lane going in each direction... or 100 kph on a road so tight you'd be lucky to get to 80 (in a car).

One more thing -> It was refreshing to see drivers and riders not being AFRAID of the police in Southern France. I even passed a cop car at a bit over the speed limit and the bus in front of him and had no worries doing so. They are looking out for people who are causing trouble or riding/driving dangerously.... not someone going a tad over the limit. Here people are scared of the police. One time I passed a cop who was clogging the crap out of the QEW at 105 on the right lane, because he was in the left and got pulled over. Of course I didn't get a ticket, but what kind of an EGO does this individual have that NO ONE CAN PASS ME.... even though he is creating a giant cluster Foo.... behind him? I think things would improve if the politicians stopped pressing police departments for money and if the insurance companies were not allowed to essentially bribe police departments with free radar equipment etc. Let the cops pick out the truly bad apples.... stop with quotas... work on lane positioning and paying attention.... that would make the roads safer.

 

[Rotten_Ronnie]

Don't plan the event on the same weekend as the double header at Mosport.

Add nude girls and free weed.

What he said.

 

[Gummiente]

However what is the difference between a sign saying 50 or 60 or 80 kph here and one that says 100 or 110 in other parts of the world? I've been on many roads elsewhere at are comparable to a road here.... and there is a difference of 40 sometimes even 60 kph to our limits. At some point you begin to wonder why our limits are so low in certain spots. 60 kph on a fairly straight road that is divided? Seriously? I've seen 120 on an undivided road with one lane going in each direction... or 100 kph on a road so tight you'd be lucky to get to 80 (in a car)

You think it might have something to do with the skill level of the average car driver in Canada being somewhat lower than that of their European counterpart? Because I sure do.

 

[Rotten_Ronnie]

When you see the 401 with that dangerous liquid ice all over it, I'd have to agree with you, Mike.

I'd still like to see them up the speed limits on the highways though. Even the police officers break the law and cruise five to ten kilometres faster than posted.

 

[Metastable]

You think it might have something to do with the skill level of the average car driver in Canada being somewhat lower than that of their European counterpart? Because I sure do.

If skill level is the problem, and I do think it is one of them, why do we settle for mediocrity? Why make speed limits so low that people often don't pay attention to them anyways? That means that it doesn't matter what the skill level is because people regardless of skill level don't pay attention to the speed limits.

 

[inreb]

If skill level is the problem, and I do think it is one of them, why do we settle for mediocrity?

That's a fascinating topic. Lack of due diligence. Laxness. Sloth. Is it the north American culture?
I liken it to construction safety. It's a lot of lip service. Lots doze off during safety meetings. For every guy that wants to work safe there's somebody else that doesn't know the rules or wants to take a shortcut. That's what driving is like in north America. Why are we like this?

I'm an immigrant to this country from Europe. When I came here one of the first things I noticed was that when somebody had something to dispose of they just threw it on the sidewalk or out the window. I never saw that in the old country. That additude carries over to driving. Witness the phone calls, texting, masterbating etc.

 

[DemonPig]

I'd say it's more laziness and lack of respect for others than no skill.
Running a red light, while turning left with no signal seems to be a habit. Put some cops at intersections and ticket drivers creating dangerous situations instead of tagging people driving in a straight line in a safe manner.

As for the Rally. I've never been. Maybe will check it out this coming year to see what it's about and see if it's worth it. Generally I'm not a huge fan of expos, rallies, meets and such. I'd rather just get on a bike and ride. Solo or with a group.

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