What stops faster "Car VS bike" - debate
- Thread starter mike.from.canmore
- Start date
shaneriley
Well-known member
Just so everyone knows, the facts in Sport Rider magazine comparing the ABS CBR600RR with the non ABS version in DRY PERFECT conditions, the NON ABS version stopped in a significantly shorter distance.
Hey Mike if you're so smart why don't you explain your theories to these guys, I'm sure they'll love hearing about your calculations and assumptions; "100% braking efficiency" and "tire traction the limiting factor".
http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Contact
No need.. they are already well aware. They are also well aware that their braking systems can dissipate MUCH more heat than OEM units, and therefore can stop many more times repeatedly before overheating.
You are in the wrong thread, this one is about stopping quickest - as in, one single stop.
Are you actually implying that OEM brakes do not provide adequate stopping force to overcome the coefficient of friction available at the tires? You're saying only aftermarket brakes like brembo can lock the front wheel? Tire traction on a sportbike IS the limiting factor.. are you really suggusting otherwise?Oh, and I never said I was so smart... I just said I already knew the answer. smart people know the answer to many many questions. I just know this one.
If you look at the poll results at the moment - 52% have chosen the car over the bike.... soo.. How can it really be so clear, if about 50% of people disagree.
this thread is/was intended as a debate, you know.. where everyone contributes, and eventually a conclusion is found...
Hey Mike if you're so smart why don't you explain your theories to these guys, I'm sure they'll love hearing about your calculations and assumptions; "100% braking efficiency" and "tire traction the limiting factor".
http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Contact
I think I should mention.. all the calculations and theories I may have linked or referenced are not actually mine. They are simply the generally accepted theories and calcs - and they happen to be correct, and well supported - although not by you for some reason?
Link to the test here:http://www.sportrider.com/sportbike_product_reviews/146_0905_2009_honda_cbr600rr_abs/index.html
However they also said: . It should be noted that with some practice, we could most likely get the C-ABS to stop quicker by modulating pressure more, and these are results obtained by an expert rider. And in the wet, we're confident that the C-ABS will always stop or slow in a shorter distance.
I find the part about modulating odd as with ABS you should just pull as hard as you can until you stop. It they were trying to release the brake and have ABS cut out, it would greatly increase the stoppign time.
Teal
Well-known member
No need.. they are already well aware. They are also well aware that their braking systems can dissipate MUCH more heat than OEM units, and therefore can stop many more times repeatedly before overheating.
You are in the wrong thread, this one is about stopping quickest - as in, one single stop.
Oh, and I never said I was so smart... I just said I already knew the answer. smart people know the answer to many many questions. I just know this one.
If you look at the poll results at the moment - 52% have chosen the car over the bike.... soo.. How can it really be so clear, if about 50% of people disagree.
this thread is/was intended as a debate, you know.. where everyone contributes, and eventually a conclusion is found...
For just about everyone here, YES! The rider is likely the limiting factor.
In the end, I do agree that traction is the highest limiting factor (unless you go ars over end which is even more likely), but in the REAL WORLD all brake systems are not created equal, they are not 100% efficient, and CG's and available traction are NOT constants.
The problem with these "ABS or non-ABS" comparisons is that in a real world panic situation, you don't have repeated opportunities to find the limit of traction on a given surface with the specific tire and surface temperatures and conditions at that very moment.
Regarding modulating brakes with ABS, it's quite possible. I've played around with the ABS system on a 2007 BMW F800ST, which is now a generation behind the latest ABS systems. It does brake hardest in the moment before the ABS activates. When the ABS activates, the deceleration is slightly, but noticeably, less than in that moment before ABS activation.
But still ... good luck finding that hair-trigger amount of braking pressure in which the brakes stop harder than the ABS can when there is a car turning left across your path.
A
ASHES
Guest
I did not read the posts but in my mind, a car will stop faster than a bike for the simple reason beign, a car has 4 tires, meaning more traction with the ground.
Snobike Mike
Banned
This test proves nothing.
Why they compare a run of the mill appliance type car to a virtually top of the heap bike is beyond me.
While it is always apples to oranges a better comparison to the Civic is to run it against something like a Versys or other similar "standard" appliance type bike or to run the K13 against something like a Z06.
Actually, I think it proves that the car wins - in every case except against the BMW K1300S
The entry level grocery getting car beat:
•BMW S1000RR – has a phenomenally sophisticated ABS system that will not only stop the front wheel locking, but – in race mode – allow a certain amount of rear wheel slip so you can back it into corners. As you do
• Honda Fireblade with C-ABS – this blew MCN away when we tested it last year. It’s incredibly smooth and allows ordinary riders to brake like national level racers.
• Yamaha XJ6 ABS – budget, older generation ABS system
• Harley Electra Glide Ultra Limited – heavy bike with older-generation ABS
Griffin
Well-known member
Where does it say in the link to the article that the car beat all the bikes except the BMW? It says the BMW beat everything including the car. I have no idea from the link how the car did against the other bikes.
It seems a lot of people are forgetting basic physics when considering this question. It is NOT a simple matter of who has the most rubber on the ground. If that was the case, a transport truck would stop fastest and that is clearly wrong.
Weight of the vehicle and speed of the vehicle must be considered. That creates the force that has to be acted against. Next you must consider what is the mechanism to stop the wheels from turning - the brakes. How good are they? What is the force and friction available and what is the leverage applied to the wheel to stop it.
Then you have the amount and quality of the rubber in applying friction to the road surface to bring the force to a stop. The size of the tires is only one part of the equation. Weight of the vehicle is hugely important. A bike weighs a LOT less than a car.
Aren't we told at rider training that we should be careful approaching/stopping at amber lights because we stop faster than cars?
Then based on your reasoning I guess an 18 wheeler Transport truck stops the fastest?
..Tom
This debate is useless, you would have to test each car/bike to get anything close to reality....
There are just way too many factors! Cars have like 20X the contact patch on the tires of a motorcycle, but a car also weights like 20X more then a motorcycle...Then you get into different brake caliper/pad/rotor setups, and electronic braking systems....
In theory I think the car should win every time, way more contact patch, and 4 wheels with brakes on each wheel....The only thing I think would give the car a disadvantage is its weight....And that depends on the car
There are just way too many factors! Cars have like 20X the contact patch on the tires of a motorcycle, but a car also weights like 20X more then a motorcycle...Then you get into different brake caliper/pad/rotor setups, and electronic braking systems....
In theory I think the car should win every time, way more contact patch, and 4 wheels with brakes on each wheel....The only thing I think would give the car a disadvantage is its weight....And that depends on the car
Sorry - you are right. The linked article doesn;t specifically say that.
But the magazine does
Buy the magazine and you will see.
Ahhh will it ever end...
Please read and understand the link that was posted by Worldtraveller in post #39, and then quoted by myself in post #47
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1094649&postcount=47
Or directly - here - http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=209&Set=199-231
By this "Weight of the vehicle is hugely important" theory - the following wouldn't make any sense. Shouldn't the "smart for two" stop much faster than everything else on the list? but it doesn't
smart fortwo: 130'
Toyota Prius: 135'
Toyota Yaris sedan: 129'
Toyota Camry Hybrid:136'
Lexus LS460: 143'
Saab 9-5 wagon: 117'
VW Rabbit: 127'
MINI Cooper: 121'
MINI Cooper S: 122'
Honda Civic Hybrid: 140'
Honda Fit Sport: 131'
BMW 335i: 119'
Volvo c30: 122'
Audi A3 quattro S: 130'
Nissan Versa Hatchback: 135'
Chevy Tahoe: 133'
Dodge Caravan: 134'
Same list - sorted. - Chevy Tahoe is within 3 ft of the smart for two - go figure
Saab 9-5 wagon 117
BMW 335i 119
MINI Cooper 121
MINI CooperS 122
Volvo c30 122
VW Rabbit 127
Toyota Yaris sedan 129
smart fortwo 130
Audi A3 quattro S 130
Honda Fit Sport 131
Chevy Tahoe 133
Dodge Caravan 134
Toyota Prius 135
Nissan Versa Hatchback 135
Toyota Camry Hybrid 136
Honda Civic Hybrid 140
Lexus LS460 143
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Thats cause that smartfortwo has ****** brakes....Simple as that, pathetic sized dics and calipers in the front with drum rear brakes...
they use a floating single piston caliper in the front with tiny pads, that is about the sise of a rear brake on a motorcycle....
Doesnt really matter what it weighs when you have pathetic brakes like this
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The Chevy Tahoe may be 4X heavier then a smart for two, but it also has 4X larger brakes....So it makes perfect sense, you cant only look at the weight of the car, you have to take into account all factors.....vehicle weight, type and size of brakes, size of wheels (diameter and width)....
Do a big brake kit on that smartfortwo and it will out brake your whole list...
This kit would knock alot of braking distance off a smart car
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