White LED okay shining from the rear? | GTAMotorcycle.com

White LED okay shining from the rear?

LannyNguyen

LannyNguyen

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I am almost ndone my bagger project on the 750.
I wanted to know, are white LEDs that light from the rear legal?

It's like these red rods but white LEDs.
street-glide-with-no-turn-s.jpg
 
Legal or not, white lights facing towards the rear is a bad idea. People associate white lights with headlights.
 
White lights on the rear of a vehicle must not be visible when operating. Example: You need a white light to shine on the plate, but mounted in such a way that you can't see the bulb from the rear.
 
Any turn signal color is legal, as long as it can be clearly visible and understood which way you are turning from a min distance of ~30m. There is no law stating the color of turn signals. But as stated before not recommended.
 
gjones4487 said:
Any turn signal color is legal, as long as it can be clearly visible and understood which way you are turning from a min distance of ~30m. There is no law stating the color of turn signals. But as stated before not recommended.
Click to expand...

Wrong. The HTA clearly defines which color lamps must be displayed to the front and rear of a vehicle, and which colors may not. With respect to the rear of a vehicle, no white light can be displayed, whether for use in the context of a turn signal or in a running light makes no difference.
 
turbodish said:
Wrong. With respect to the rear of a vehicle, no white light can be displayed, whether for use in the context of a turn signal or in a running light makes no difference.
Click to expand...

OK - thanks for the heads up.......I'll cease driving in reverse.
 
62. (1) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (1).

Lamps required on motorcycles

(2) Subject to subsection (3), when on a highway at any time every motorcycle shall carry two lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on the front of the vehicle which shall display a white light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (2).


Idem

(3) When on a highway at any time every motorcycle with a side car shall carry a lighted lamp in a conspicuous position on each side of the front of the vehicle which lamps shall display a white or amber light only and a lighted lamp on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (3).


Light requirement

(4) Any lamp required under subsection (1), (2) or (3) shall, when lighted, be clearly visible at a distance of at least 150 metres from the front or rear, as the case may be. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (4).


Exception

(5) Despite subsections (2) and (3), where a motorcycle that was manufactured prior to the 1st day of January, 1970 is operated on a highway, the lighted lamps required under subsections (2) and (3) shall be required only during the period from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise, or at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (5).


Strength of lamps

(6) Lamps on the front of a motor vehicle shall be so constructed, located, arranged and adjusted that when lighted as required by subsections (1), (2) and (3) they produce under normal atmospheric conditions and on a level road a driving light sufficient to render clearly discernible to the operator of the motor vehicle any person or vehicle on the highway within a distance of 110 metres ahead of the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (6).


Attachment that affects lamps prohibited

(7) No person shall drive upon a highway a motor vehicle if either or both of the lamps that are required on the front of the vehicle by subsections (1), (2) and (3),

(a) are coated or covered with a coloured material; or

(b) have been modified by the attachment to the lamps or the motor vehicle of any device that reduces the effective area of the lenses or the intensity of the beam of the lamps. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).


Exception
(7.1) Clause (7) (a) does not apply if the lamps are of the prescribed type or meet the prescribed standards. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).
 
Gary said:
OK - thanks for the heads up.......I'll cease driving in reverse.
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That's a little different. The reverse lights are only on when in reverse, and aren't used for indication, but so that you can see behind you.
 
kamikaze said:
That's a little different. The reverse lights are only on when in reverse, and aren't used for indication, but so that you can see behind you.
Click to expand...

Say what?
INDICATION is exactly what they're for - i.e. going backwards so any vehicle behind knows wtf is going on. I'm not going to look it up, but I'm quite sure they must be working to pass a safety test.
There isn't 1 vehicle I know of that can light up the rear of a car / truck better than sunlight - otherwise, reverse lights would only glow at night, by your wisdom.

I used to install (switched) aftermarket back up lights under the bumper of any vans and pick up trucks I used to own, so I could see at night. Came in handy launching & loading boats.
OEM reverse lights don't work to light up the path.
 
I wondered if people actually would think motorcycles, not trikes have reverse... LOL
Anyways, I'm going to stick with red.
 
As usual, the correct response is given in the first couple of responses, and then it all goes south.

Ontario's HTA doesn't specifically mention or allow for reverse lamps. Also, the section quoted above mentions the lighting that is required but it doesn't properly cover the lighting that is not allowed. It has been pointed out before that if you have two red-facing rear lamps, you have one. If you have one red-facing rear lamp and one white lamp that indirectly illuminates the license plate and one rear-facing lamp that displays pink with purple polka-dots (as long as they're not flashing), you have one red-racing rear lamp and you have an illuminated license plate. The other one isn't specifically addressed as long as it is not flashing. It's the same grey area that concerns so-called "under-glow" auxiliary lighting ... not really legal but not really illegal, either.

When Ontario's poorly-written HTA fails, revert to the Federal standard that is much better written (although still not perfect): CMVSS 108.

White-facing rear lamps (aside from the indirect license plate illumination) are only permitted as reverse lamps and must not be activated when the vehicle is in any gear other than reverse.

The only permitted forward-facing colours are white and amber. The only permitted rear-facing colours are red, and amber (or red) for turn signals only, and white for reversing lamps only, and the indirect white illumination of the license plate.

White-facing rear lighting fails the common-sense test. People expect to see red rear illumination and white front illumination. Something else, and you could be either coming or going.
 
The comments in the HTA regarding the white light of the license plate light not being directed rearwards gives a pretty good idea as to what shouldn't be on the back of a vehicle. It would be nice if they were a little more direct about it though.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
62. (1) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (1).

Lamps required on motorcycles

(2) Subject to subsection (3), when on a highway at any time every motorcycle shall carry two lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on the front of the vehicle which shall display a white light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (2).


Idem

(3) When on a highway at any time every motorcycle with a side car shall carry a lighted lamp in a conspicuous position on each side of the front of the vehicle which lamps shall display a white or amber light only and a lighted lamp on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (3).


Light requirement

(4) Any lamp required under subsection (1), (2) or (3) shall, when lighted, be clearly visible at a distance of at least 150 metres from the front or rear, as the case may be. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (4).


Exception

(5) Despite subsections (2) and (3), where a motorcycle that was manufactured prior to the 1st day of January, 1970 is operated on a highway, the lighted lamps required under subsections (2) and (3) shall be required only during the period from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise, or at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (5).


Strength of lamps

(6) Lamps on the front of a motor vehicle shall be so constructed, located, arranged and adjusted that when lighted as required by subsections (1), (2) and (3) they produce under normal atmospheric conditions and on a level road a driving light sufficient to render clearly discernible to the operator of the motor vehicle any person or vehicle on the highway within a distance of 110 metres ahead of the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (6).


Attachment that affects lamps prohibited

(7) No person shall drive upon a highway a motor vehicle if either or both of the lamps that are required on the front of the vehicle by subsections (1), (2) and (3),

(a) are coated or covered with a coloured material; or

(b) have been modified by the attachment to the lamps or the motor vehicle of any device that reduces the effective area of the lenses or the intensity of the beam of the lamps. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).


Exception
(7.1) Clause (7) (a) does not apply if the lamps are of the prescribed type or meet the prescribed standards. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).
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Yes for running light... for a signal does not matter... i may have miss understood the OP's question i thought it was for signals.
i had a similar question and i asked my brother in law (works for OPP) and he sent me a section of the HTA and is basically said what i said above. turnsignals must be clear to which way a vehicle is turning and be visible from 150m away (sorry messed up the distance earlier).
No where in this section does it say turn signals, that is for running lights...
Cheers, Geoff
 
gjones4487 said:
Yes for running light... for a signal does not matter... i may have miss understood the OP's question i thought it was for signals.
i had a similar question and i asked my brother in law (works for OPP) and he sent me a section of the HTA and is basically said what i said above. turnsignals must be clear to which way a vehicle is turning and be visible from 150m away (sorry messed up the distance earlier).
No where in this section does it say turn signals, that is for running lights...
Cheers, Geoff
Click to expand...

A turn signal produces intermittent flashes of light. Now go through the HTA and see what it says about intermittent flashes of light of different colours. http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm
 
Rob MacLennan said:
62. (1) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (1).

Lamps required on motorcycles

(2) Subject to subsection (3), when on a highway at any time every motorcycle shall carry two lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on the front of the vehicle which shall display a white light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (2).


Idem

(3) When on a highway at any time every motorcycle with a side car shall carry a lighted lamp in a conspicuous position on each side of the front of the vehicle which lamps shall display a white or amber light only and a lighted lamp on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (3).


Light requirement

(4) Any lamp required under subsection (1), (2) or (3) shall, when lighted, be clearly visible at a distance of at least 150 metres from the front or rear, as the case may be. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (4).


Exception

(5) Despite subsections (2) and (3), where a motorcycle that was manufactured prior to the 1st day of January, 1970 is operated on a highway, the lighted lamps required under subsections (2) and (3) shall be required only during the period from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise, or at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (5).


Strength of lamps

(6) Lamps on the front of a motor vehicle shall be so constructed, located, arranged and adjusted that when lighted as required by subsections (1), (2) and (3) they produce under normal atmospheric conditions and on a level road a driving light sufficient to render clearly discernible to the operator of the motor vehicle any person or vehicle on the highway within a distance of 110 metres ahead of the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (6).


Attachment that affects lamps prohibited

(7) No person shall drive upon a highway a motor vehicle if either or both of the lamps that are required on the front of the vehicle by subsections (1), (2) and (3),

(a) are coated or covered with a coloured material; or

(b) have been modified by the attachment to the lamps or the motor vehicle of any device that reduces the effective area of the lenses or the intensity of the beam of the lamps. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).


Exception
(7.1) Clause (7) (a) does not apply if the lamps are of the prescribed type or meet the prescribed standards. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).
Click to expand...


If you get a ticket for breaking one of these laws...would it affect your insurance rates?
 
turbodish said:
A turn signal produces intermittent flashes of light. Now go through the HTA and see what it says about intermittent flashes of light of different colours. http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm
Click to expand...

What I get is that four-way flashers are legal, but red turn signals aren't!

For decades, American cars always had red turn signals in the back, and many cars still do (including mine).

Once again, the HTA is badly worded, and you have to go to the federal motor vehicle standards to get the correct explanation.

Aw heck, we should go back to semaphores like a '53 VW Beetle had. That's probably when they wrote that piece of the HTA ...
 
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