Weird air filtration system

[FiReSTaRT]

Figured I'd post this in technical as it probably involves air tools even though we weren't told what exactly it was for (I'm guessing it's air due to the nature of the filter media, other materials and certain assembly instructions, but wasn't given the details)..

What I'm trying to figure out is why design the system like this (and it is by design, they just didn't wanna elaborate when I raised my concerns) that most of the flow will go through Filter 1, while Filter 2 will only get a little. Is Filter 2 just a redundancy measure in case Filter 1 gets clogged? Any ideas?

 

[Gnu]

Most parallel built systems that I've seen are set up that for a maintenance purpose. Assuming there is a valve before each device, the system can stay running while working on the other device.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Most parallel built systems that I've seen are set up that for a maintenance purpose. Assuming there is a valve before each device, the system can stay running while working on the other device.

The valves weren't in that section of the system, that's the real strange part. It doesn't make sense but the people who designed it are a pretty smart, technically capable bunch so there must be some valid reason.

 

[fibster]

As there are no isolation valves to allow individual replacement of the filters on the fly, maybe having 2 is simply to reduce the pressure drop that
you'd get across a filter element - even a clean one. Maybe the tool(s) being supplied needed just a bit more pressure than they were getting.
Doubling the filter area would reduce the pressure loss.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Figured I'd post this in technical as it probably involves air tools even though we weren't told what exactly it was for (I'm guessing it's air due to the nature of the filter media, other materials and certain assembly instructions, but wasn't given the details)..

What I'm trying to figure out is why design the system like this (and it is by design, they just didn't wanna elaborate when I raised my concerns) that most of the flow will go through Filter 1, while Filter 2 will only get a little. Is Filter 2 just a redundancy measure in case Filter 1 gets clogged? Any ideas?

Neither filter can handle the full CFM of the system? Eg 100 cfm compressor and 2 50 CFM filters just my guess.

 

[Stewart]

is one filter for oil and the other for water? are the filters different sizes? does the plumping match the drawing/ one above the other? the pressure should be equal through both pathes.

 

[skapan]

Perhaps the second filter is a finer (smaller micron) filter that only treats a portion of the air each time it passes through. I've sen similar systems for oil and for coolant, if the finer filter gets clogged with crap the first filter can still perform the service. Had a system just like this in the coolant lines on my Ford diesel truck, and the finer filter did clear a lot of debris out of the system over time.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Perhaps the second filter is a finer (smaller micron) filter that only treats a portion of the air each time it passes through. I've sen similar systems for oil and for coolant, if the finer filter gets clogged with crap the first filter can still perform the service. Had a system just like this in the coolant lines on my Ford diesel truck, and the finer filter did clear a lot of debris out of the system over time.

The filters are completely equal. The view of the drawing is top down. I asked this question elsewhere, and there were 2 interesting possibilities..

1) As soon as F1 creates a bit of pressure, it will equalize across both filters
2) Running 2 filters in parallel like this also reduces the maintenance intervals

By the way, the filters might not be for air, but the media seemed like pleated paper.. I left out strainers (used for larger, heavier particles?) before each filter as they didn't seem relevant to the specific question in the OP (also equal units), the filter housing was plastic, but the piping was black iron, either 2" or 1.5".

This setup seems way out of whack for my usual work, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

 

[Stewart]

The filters are completely equal. The view of the drawing is top down. I asked this question elsewhere, and there were 2 interesting possibilities..

1) As soon as F1 creates a bit of pressure, it will equalize across both filters
2) Running 2 filters in parallel like this also reduces the maintenance intervals

By the way, the filters might not be for air, but the media seemed like pleated paper.. I left out strainers (used for larger, heavier particles?) before each filter as they didn't seem relevant to the specific question in the OP (also equal units), the filter housing was plastic, but the piping was black iron, either 2" or 1.5".

This setup seems way out of whack for my usual work, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

if this is for compressed air, your #1 comment makes no sense, and #2 comment is true.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

if this is for compressed air, your #1 comment makes no sense, and #2 comment is true.

The problem is that the use isn't absolutely certain.. Whatever it is, it has nothing directly related to do with the business that asked us to assemble it.

I'm just curious as to why you'd think #2 wouldn't make sense.. The way I see it (and there's a good possibility that I could be wrong lol) is that if the first filter creates some resistance to flow, it will create enough of a pressure difference to push it down the path through F2. Ok, might not be equal-equal, but it should get close enough?

 

[Stewart]

The problem is that the use isn't absolutely certain.. Whatever it is, it has nothing directly related to do with the business that asked us to assemble it.

I'm just curious as to why you'd think #2 wouldn't make sense.. The way I see it (and there's a good possibility that I could be wrong lol) is that if the first filter creates some resistance to flow, it will create enough of a pressure difference to push it down the path through F2. Ok, might not be equal-equal, but it should get close enough?

if resistance builds up in filter 1 and the piping is equal size through out the whole lenght,then the pressure will flow through filter 2 with out restriction of flow (cfm). i said #1 doesn't make sense because, the pressure won't equalize with a filter blocked or reduced in flow. it comes down to high pressure/low pressure equalizing in a confinded space. the flow will take the easyist route. i worked for comp air canada for 8 years and am certified for 6000 psi high pressure breathing air.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Ok, so we're talking the same language, now just gotta figure out where we're diverging My take on it is that any filter will create some resistance to flow or it wouldn't be a very effective filter. If the first one creates enough of a resistance, it would build up some pressure upstream from the filter and because air would go from high to low, wouldn't a good amount of that flow start heading towards filter-2 regardless of the changes of direction that the air has to take?

 

[Armen444]

What my studies in physics and general electronics tells me that as long as the resistance to air flow in each filter is the same, then both filters will be under equal pressure and passing equal amount of airflow through to the other side of the system. Anyone here know what a parallel resistor circuit is? because thats exactly what this is hope it helps, id love to elaborate more if you guys like

 

[FiReSTaRT]

What my studies in physics and general electronics tells me that as long as the resistance to air flow in each filter is the same, then both filters will be under equal pressure and passing equal amount of airflow through to the other side of the system. Anyone here know what a parallel resistor circuit is? because thats exactly what this is hope it helps, id love to elaborate more if you guys like

Sure thing.. I'm curious as to the effect the resistance of F1 will have on the "fluid" overcoming the natural inertia and partly taking the path to F1

 

[Armen444]

Sure thing.. I'm curious as to the effect the resistance of F1 will have on the "fluid" overcoming the natural inertia and partly taking the path to F1

What I'm trying to figure out is why design the system like this (and it is by design, they just didn't wanna elaborate when I raised my concerns) that most of the flow will go through Filter 1, while Filter 2 will only get a little. Is Filter 2 just a redundancy measure in case Filter 1 gets clogged? Any ideas?

ha! good one to actually answer the above tho. the reason the system is designed like this is probably due to a larger amount of airflow needed past the filters, therefore they have created a junction to allow 2 filters to be used instead of one, thus decreasing the amount of air flow resistance to the other side. Also like previously stated before, if they are the exact same filters they will both pass through the exact same amount of air through to the receiving end, thus doubling the airflow.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

I can dig it.. So long story short, it's to increase the flow capacity of the system and extend the replacement intervals?

 

[Armen444]

cant comment on the change interval but one thing im certain for sure is to allow more volume of air to be filtered faster However when a filter change is required for 1, then both need to be change due to them both filtering an identical volume of air thus being as dirty as one another

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Thanks for the input.. Armed with that, I might not exactly impress the powers that be, but I might show that I'm not a total dumbass, which ain't bad when looking to be taken on permanently

 

[Armen444]

Thanks for the input.. Armed with that, I might not exactly impress the powers that be, but I might show that I'm not a total dumbass, which ain't bad when looking to be taken on permanently

Anytime eh, forums are for the good of all, and if no one asked questions there wouldn't be any valued information to look up^ so thank you for making this forum more valuable BTW what exactly is this system used for? a motorcycle? where do the lines go? just curious

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Anytime eh, forums are for the good of all, and if no one asked questions there wouldn't be any valued information to look up^ so thank you for making this forum more valuable BTW what exactly is this system used for? a motorcycle? where do the lines go? just curious

I'm not sure.. The medium seemed to be pleated paper, so I assumed it wouldn't be used for any fluids, but then again, I don't see any uses for that place of business unless they wanted to run an air system either at the shop or if the owners wanted it at home for hobby projects. The only times I've seen compressed air systems in this type of shop was just to be used for maintaining the trucks but this one doesn't bring trucks inside. The piping used was black iron and pretty big too (most of it was in 2"). Other than gas, I've seen black iron used on air compressors, so I made the assumption, which could be way off.