Watch out for Tesla's | GTAMotorcycle.com

Watch out for Tesla's

Can anyone make a case for Autopilot remaining legal anymore? I understand that Tesla was given the benefit of the doubt at first, but this experiment has gone on long enough and either it is inherently dangerous or the average driver can't be trusted with it
 
When you turn the auto pilot on, an internal camera should turn on as well.
If it is found that you are watching a movie on your phone, texted, etc, and you kill someone. murder 1.
You had intent by ignoring the road and those on it.
 
have to clarify, autopilot is just adaptive cruise and lane keeping.
every car has this and every car still requires you to pay attention, there are many accidents with people over-relying on these systems.
tesla just gets a bad rep because they also have full self-driving, different system still beta testing.

if you active cruise/autopilot and aren't looking ahead and run into someone, it's on you not the car. I have autopilot and I would never completely trust it to drive, same as ACC + lane keep on any other car.

Soulcatcher668 said:
When you turn the auto pilot on, an internal camera should turn on as well.
If it is found that you are watching a movie on your phone, texted, etc, and you kill someone. murder 1.
You had intent by ignoring the road and those on it.
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new teslas do have this and will prompt you to grab the wheel if it sees you are not paying attention and for data in accidents now.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Can anyone make a case for Autopilot remaining legal anymore? I understand that Tesla was given the benefit of the doubt at first, but this experiment has gone on long enough and either it is inherently dangerous or the average driver can't be trusted with it
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What do you think about Autopilot in airplanes then? If one of those has an accident hundreds of people die. Just because 25 people are dead (in a country of 300+ million) doesn't mean you pull the plug on the whole project.

How many accidents has Autopilot prevented? How many trips have been taken on Autopilot without incident? Real analysis with real statistics and real experience needs to happen. A kneejerk reaction to a handful of cases is usually overkill.

I agree that more/different controls need to be in place to prevent as many accidents as possible, but expecting the new technology to be 100% right out of the gate is foolish. If that were the standard, cars, airplanes and most certainly bikes would never have been invented.

According to my exhaustive research, 42,915 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes last year. Where is your outrage at that statistic?
 
Well the difference for me would be that in the airplane you "choose" to be in/ fly the plane and if something happens you crash in the ocean or in field, mountain side etc.
The autopilot car is putting "other" people at risk.
You can take the risk but leave me out of it!
 
justride said:
Well the difference for me would be that in the airplane you "choose" to be in/ fly the plane and if something happens you crash in the ocean or in field, mountain side etc.
The autopilot car is putting "other" people at risk.
You can take the risk but leave me out of it!
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I am actually curious has autopilot prevented and saved more live than it has cost? Should we all be outraged that people are driving themselves and not using it?

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Right, just so we're all on the same page here:

-Tesla has always marketed Autopilot as more than lane assist/adaptive cruise, hence the name
-It has been available in one form or another for eight years now, and every Tesla so equipped has been capable of telemetry and OTA updates
-They have always been keen on an early adopter philosophy, shipping what they have now and (hopefully) fixing problems that crop up later
-Mobileye dropped Tesla after they become uncomfortable with how Tesla was using their tech
-It's been known for years that Autopilot is substandard when dealing with motorcycles

I don't think Tesla has shown that they have been deploying this technology responsibly, or with full regard for public safety. I do think most people were interested in the potential of this tech when Tesla first introduced it, but it hasn't improved to the degree that they promised. And I don't think pinning the responsibility on the driver works when enough drivers clearly aren't taking that responsibility seriously. A small number of people ruining stuff for the rest of us is a long standing norm in society.

I would contrast it with the more conservative approach that GM has taken with Super Cruise. Day one it came with a much more serious driver monitoring system than Autopilot did. Possibly not even for any regard for humanity but instead sensitivity to liability... and I do think litigation is going to become a larger problem for Tesla over time - they haven't very well insulated themselves from the problems Autopilot has
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Right, just so we're all on the same page here:

-Tesla has always marketed Autopilot as more than lane assist/adaptive cruise, hence the name
-It has been available in one form or another for eight years now, and every Tesla so equipped has been capable of telemetry and OTA updates
-They have always been keen on an early adopter philosophy, shipping what they have now and (hopefully) fixing problems that crop up later
-Mobileye dropped Tesla after they become uncomfortable with how Tesla was using their tech
-It's been known for years that Autopilot is substandard when dealing with motorcycles

I don't think Tesla has shown that they have been deploying this technology responsibly, or with full regard for public safety. I do think most people were interested in the potential of this tech when Tesla first introduced it, but it hasn't improved to the degree that they promised. And I don't think pinning the responsibility on the driver works when enough drivers clearly aren't taking that responsibility seriously. A small number of people ruining stuff for the rest of us is a long standing norm in society.

I would contrast it with the more conservative approach that GM has taken with Super Cruise. Day one it came with a much more serious driver monitoring system than Autopilot did. Possibly not even for any regard for humanity but instead sensitivity to liability... and I do think litigation is going to become a larger problem for Tesla over time - they haven't very well insulated themselves from the problems Autopilot has
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Agree. You can't give a person nothing to do and tell them to remain focused. We suck at that. I have no problem with an intervention after you screwed up but you can't have the car in control and expect a person to be the babysitter. 99% of the time the person will fail in that role.

On the marketing front, Tesla calling it Autopilot and Full Self Driving while including in the small print that it is not remotely what the branding implies should be enough to get them sued out of existence. They are doing beta testing in public using unwitting members of the public as their test cases. That is entirely unacceptable. If they cared at all about lives, if the driver stopped looking out, it would almost immediately disable driving assist and give you a long time out before it would go again (at least 15 minutes).

As for comparison to planes, they are slotted into lanes that should have no obstacles within 1000 feet. It's an entirely different scenario than trying to navigate a congested and constantly changing environment where many obstacles move unpredictably.
 
GreyGhost said:
Agree. You can't give a person nothing to do and tell them to remain focused. We suck at that. I have no problem with an intervention after you screwed up but you can't have the car in control and expect a person to be the babysitter. 99% of the time the person will fail in that role.

On the marketing front, Tesla calling it Autopilot and Full Self Driving while including in the small print that it is not remotely what the branding implies should be enough to get them sued out of existence. They are doing beta testing in public using unwitting members of the public as their test cases. That is entirely unacceptable. If they cared at all about lives, if the driver stopped looking out, it would almost immediately disable driving assist and give you a long time out before it would go again (at least 15 minutes).

As for comparison to planes, they are slotted into lanes that should have no obstacles within 1000 feet. It's an entirely different scenario than trying to navigate a congested and constantly changing environment where many obstacles move unpredictably.
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I also was gonna attempt to contrast aviation autopilot with Tesla Autopilot, and how pilots have plenty of other things to keep them busy and/or how not flying into other planes is a completely separate system (TCAS) but it got kinda rambly and I'm not playing with a full deck today
 
sempre1 said:
All these accidents happened in the dark...so How can i tell if it is a Tesla right behind me in the dark??
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If you ride in the dark where there are no street lights and in your mirrors you see a pair of headlamps closing in on you from behind, then I would suggest that you move over and let the car pass you regardless if it is a Tesla or not.
Ride safe!
 
killvino said:
have to clarify, autopilot is just adaptive cruise and lane keeping.
every car has this and every car still requires you to pay attention, there are many accidents with people over-relying on these systems.
tesla just gets a bad rep because they also have full self-driving, different system still beta testing.
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As it was explained to me (please correct me if I’m wrong) it’s the same systems, but Tesla removed the safety nets.

Most ACC/LKS systems can only be activated above a certain speed, and have measures to ensure the driver’s attention (camera, or steering input), where Tesla just said YOLO
 
regder said:
As it was explained to me (please correct me if I’m wrong) it’s the same systems, but Tesla removed the safety nets.

Most ACC/LKS systems can only be activated above a certain speed, and have measures to ensure the driver’s attention (camera, or steering input), where Tesla just said YOLO
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no that's wrong. my parents old early 2000s Mercedes had ACC that could come to a stop and get going so no speed limit. None except for the new fancy ones have cameras, GM super cruise and Fords equivalent have this but these can do lane changes and are much more advanced.

most Hondas including my Ridgeline have ACC/LKS but no cameras. It was so bad, I barely used it (kept a mile of distance and bounced around in the lane)
 
turbofj6 said:
What do you think about Autopilot in airplanes then?
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Comparing any vehicular version of "autopilot" to what happens in aircraft is about as strong of an "Apples to Oranges" comparison as is physically possible.

Modern passenger aircraft have a multutude of interconnected systems that work with a multitude of other interconnected systems to ensure that the autopilot does it's task - maintains the desired speed, course, and altitude, all while observing traffic around them via those other interconnected systems and alerting the pilots to take over manual control if need be, although autopilot on some aircraft can even take evasive action themselves under certain circumstances - ie TCAS on Airbus aircraft can follow collision avoidance resolution guidance if the pilots do not do so fast enough, for example.

Smaller general aviation aircraft may have a more rudimentary system, but accomplishes much of the same thing in the end, albeit without automated inventions typicaly.

But, key difference...the sky is comparatively a wide open expanse of nothingness compared to pretty much any road. When you're flying you don't have to worry about pedestrians or people on bicycles or children running out of driveways chasing balls when you're in an airplane on autopilot. Or motorcycles now, apparently. But a car driving on a street/highway may have to contend with any or all of that. And it's becoming increasingly clear that the current level of technology being utilized in these systems is not up to that task 100% of the time, especially when the manufacturer (*cough*, Tesla) is guilty of making the public think these systems are far more capable and advanced than they actually are.

DownUnder said:
Do tesla owners sniff their own farts like the early prius adopters?
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No, they sniff Elons farts and tell him how great they smell.
 
On another note, our Volt has adaptive cruise control with lane keep assist.

The lane keep is little more than a bump on the steering wheel if you're drifting.

The adaptive cruise control is awesome, but not perfect...one still needs to be observant of quickly decelerating traffic in front of you that the ACC might react to late, etc. It will bring the car to a complete stop and then accelerate again when the light turns green or traffic clears, etc.

But even if the car completely drove itself, would I just go full YOLO with a system like this? Nope. Tesla owners? Hell yeah. Because they've been led to believe it's some magical thing ahead of it's time yadda yadda.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Comparing any vehicular version of "autopilot" to what happens in aircraft is about as strong of an "Apples to Oranges" comparison as is physically possible.

Modern passenger aircraft have a multutude of interconnected systems that work with a multitude of other interconnected systems to ensure that the autopilot does it's task - maintains the desired speed, course, and altitude, all while observing traffic around them via those other interconnected systems and alerting the pilots to take over manual control if need be, although autopilot on some aircraft can even take evasive action themselves under certain circumstances - ie TCAS on Airbus aircraft can follow collision avoidance resolution guidance if the pilots do not do so fast enough, for example.

Smaller general aviation aircraft may have a more rudimentary system, but accomplishes much of the same thing in the end, albeit without automated inventions typicaly.

But, key difference...the sky is comparatively a wide open expanse of nothingness compared to pretty much any road. When you're flying you don't have to worry about pedestrians or people on bicycles or children running out of driveways chasing balls when you're in an airplane on autopilot. Or motorcycles now, apparently. But a car driving on a street/highway may have to contend with any or all of that. And it's becoming increasingly clear that the current level of technology being utilized in these systems is not up to that task 100% of the time, especially when the manufacturer (*cough*, Tesla) is guilty of making the public think these systems are far more capable and advanced than they actually are.



No, they sniff Elons farts and tell him how great they smell.
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