Waiting for pedestrians to cross entire road before proceeding?

[Motorcycle Mike]

I was just reading a news article about the recent changes in some of our laws on the road: http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/beyond-...re-changes-to-the-rules-of-the-road-1.2404999

And read this:

At pedestrian crossovers and school crossings, drivers must stop for the entire time a pedestrian is crossing.

Just for clarification, even if the pedestrian is crossing a 6 lane road... such as Hurontario in Mississauga, they must be completely across (not just past the median) if you want to make a right or left turn? Or is this just for crosswalks that you approach perpendicular to and are not turning across such as:

If it is for a crossing that you approach from any direction, what do you do if you are making a left and have claimed the intersection (i.e, in the middle of the intersection awaiting a clear path to turn) and a pedestrian starts crossing late and/or is very slow... do you just sit in the intersection on a red and hope the cars who have the green obey the rule and wait for everything to clear? It's more likely whoever gets a green will start moving and it will be easy to be trapped in the middle if you follow the rules.

Normally if I were turning left, I would wait until the pedestrian is past the median and therefore completely out of danger from my vehicle and then go. I wonder how this will all work out -- if it is at all enforced or anyone actually obeys the rule.

 

[rakkaus]

add advance green light?

 

[kiwi]

Yeah, I saw that change. Im fine with it at school zones, but those 4 lane roads are going to be hard to wait for. The reality is that most drivers won't be doing this and it will be in the same category as a lot of other things.. Like signalling lane changes and basically Ignored by drivers.
I wonder how much it will be enforced?

 

[hedo2002]

Yeah, I saw that change. Im fine with it at school zones, but those 4 lane roads are going to be hard to wait for. The reality is that most drivers won't be doing this and it will be in the same category as a lot of other things.. Like signalling lane changes and basically Ignored by drivers.
I wonder how much it will be enforced?

Initially it will likely be enforced heavily, as are most new laws. It is like a "new toy" for the police, a "novelty" if you will. It will also likely be the focus of an "education program", followed by an enforcement blitz. Over time enforcement will wain. But god forbid if something goes awry in a crosswalk and your found to have proceeded while the pedestrian was still on the road way, even if not in the lanes of your direction of travel.

 

[kiwi]

I wonder if they will do a media blitz on this? Do they normally try to get the changes out there? Actually I've never thought of this before, but how does other provinces differ from each other in general? I've assumed that the laws are very similar across the country...

 

[Venom01]

I don't mind the distracted driving awareness. I put a bluetooth deck in my car ages ago. It was more about convenience then law conformity to me. I'd rather be hands free any day.

However this increased fines for turning while the pedestrian is still crossing is nothing more the a cash grab and a bandaid.

How long will the government ignore a broken system that let's people who shouldn't even be walking without someone holding their hand a drivers license?

I lost all faith in the system the day an old girlfriend of mine who had no business on the road get her drivers license by crying her eyes out at the end of the test. Seriously, she was terrible. She would even stop while backing up to ask "which way do I turn the wheel again?"

Worst part of all is she got it in the first place to get a job in which she may be required to drive other people around who were unable to drive themselves due to certain handicaps.


I'm kinda ****** off about all this but not surprised.

 

[yeltoM]

As I understand things, if the pedestrian(s) are on your side of the median you must wait until they clear the roadway. If the pedestrian(s) are on the far side of the median, you are good to go. I'll have to go read the rules again.

Edit: It seems I'm wrong. Can't enter the crossover until the pedestrian has cleared the roadway.

Edit: it's a bit of a grey area. Crosswalk and crossover are two different things but the act isn't particularly clear on this.

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

I hoping that the language of the law makes a distinction between the two, right now the MTO Driver's handbook has this on crosswalks:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.5.3.shtml

In particular it states:

Drivers including cyclists must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians in the crossover. Once people have cleared your side of the road, and no other pedestrians are approaching, you may proceed with caution when it is safe. You must not pass any vehicle within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossover.

However, as far as I know the pedestrian crossing at an intersection is not the same as a crosswalk/crossover, is it?

As far as intersections go, the handbook states the following:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.4.3.shtml

At any intersection where you want to turn left or right, you must yield the right-of-way. If you are turning left, you must wait for approaching traffic to pass or turn and for pedestrians in or approaching your path to cross. If you are turning right, you must wait for pedestrians to cross if they are in or approaching your path (Diagram 2-20). You should also check your blind spot for cyclists approaching from behind, particularly in a bike lane to your right, on a sidewalk or a trail. A yield sign means you must slow down or stop if necessary and yield the right-of-way to traffic in the intersection or on the intersecting road.

 

[LePhillou]

Crosswalks in the middle of the road? Ok ill let it pass.

At any intersection? We're talking something that is going to ruin downtown traffic even further lol.

Also, the number of times i can ride through safely without even coming close to a pedestrian and be gone where a car wouldve impaled 5-6 pedestrians because of sheer size and slowness...
I get the idea BEHIND it... but when 70 y old lady crosses the street with her walker (and someone is already there to help her cause chivalry's not dead), waiting for her to cross the whole thing is just plain torture.

 

[RockerGuy]

There are some pedestrians who take their sweet ass time with no care in the world

 

[Baggsy]

What happens when they start to cross against the light?

I've had major issues making a left turn downtown,
because pedestrians don't believe that red means I can go, and they can't.

Especially, when it's one way to one way.

 

[nobbie48]

What happens when they start to cross against the light?

I've had major issues making a left turn downtown,
because pedestrians don't believe that red means I can go, and they can't.

Especially, when it's one way to one way.

Few pedestrians realize know the jaywalking laws. Downtown will be a disaster. They cross when the light is green but "Don't Walk" is flashing. If they're rushing for a bus it's "Every man for himself".

In the city core they might as well say No turns as there is always someone crossing or approaching.

 

[mech9t5]

Few pedestrians realize know the jaywalking laws. Downtown will be a disaster. They cross when the light is green but "Don't Walk" is flashing. If they're rushing for a bus it's "Every man for himself".

In the city core they might as well say No turns as there is always someone crossing or approaching.

+1

if they decide to enforce this downtown they better also enforce jay walking. otherwise, people are never going to be able to turn.

 

[matthew]

Traffic lights aren't included

 

[griff2]

but when 70 y old lady crosses the street with her walker (and someone is already there to help her cause chivalry's not dead), waiting for her to cross the whole thing is just plain torture.

Think of what it's like for her trying to cross while getting buzzed by impatient traffic.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Few pedestrians realize know the jaywalking laws. Downtown will be a disaster. They cross when the light is green but "Don't Walk" is flashing. If they're rushing for a bus it's "Every man for himself".

In the city core they might as well say No turns as there is always someone crossing or approaching.

I was thinking the same. In the downtown core pedestrians constantly ignore the 'don't walk' warning and cross with mere seconds left on the countdown, start crossing before the light has changed in their favour, and start crossing when turning traffic has an advanced green. If this new law is enforced as implied, then the core will grind to a halt.

I keep asking myself why the power-that-be aren't bothering to enforce the laws that apply to these pedestrians, but are instead putting all of the onus on drivers?

[video=youtube;Fg5Dnb76SMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg5Dnb76SMA&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[macro]

My guess on this law would be to make it easier and more clear if a pedestrian is hit at a crossing. Before you could say what they were half way across blah blah blah. There was room for argument. Now there isn't.

 

[kiwi]

I keep asking myself why the power-that-be aren't bothering to enforce the laws that apply to these pedestrians, but are instead putting all of the onus on drivers?
[/video]

easy, looks good politically - shown to be doing something for pedestrian fatalities, easy to target a driver and charge *them* than a pedestrian = $$,

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

Did anyone else catch the bit about tow trucks:

• Drivers will be required to pull over for passing tow trucks with their amber lights activated, in addition to emergency vehicles

I can understand pulling over for emergency services... makes sense... but to make way for the 1/2 dozen vultures that all flock to an accident scene? ... I guess it is better to clear the way than to be pushed out of the way like they do now. The only thing more dangerous on the roads than taxi drivers are tow truck drivers.

 

[griff2]

Did anyone else catch the bit about tow trucks:



I can understand pulling over for emergency services... makes sense... but to make way for the 1/2 dozen vultures that all flock to an accident scene? ... I guess it is better to clear the way than to be pushed out of the way like they do now. The only thing more dangerous on the roads than taxi drivers are tow truck drivers.

That has to be a mistake by the article's writer.

There was serious talk about including tow trucks in with the current "move-over" law that requires you to move over a lane or slow when approaching police stopped with their roof lights on. That's what I would bet this is all about, having to move-over for tow trucks stopped on the shoulder with amber beacons going.

There is no way that tow trucks with amber lights would ever gain the same benefits as the red or red/blue beacons enjoy, unless the law was to change to permit them to show red lights on top.