Vp fuels c12 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Vp fuels c12

Iceman

Iceman

Well-known member
My best friend just bought a big can of C12. He plans to mix it 50/50 with premium unleaded and run it in his stock husqvarna 250 2t. My question is can it harm the engine or shorten it's life span? Will there actually be any difference if the engine isn't built for it?
I don't see any need, the bike is very fast as is.

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Why? What is the upside? Normally higher octane fuels actually have less BTU's than lower octane fuels. Maybe C12 has more btu's than pump gas?

I played with a toluene mix in a 2T years ago and we got more power out of it, but we leaned it out and had pyrometers on each cylinder to avoid melting it. Just running the expensive fuel with the sled setup for pump gas did nothing but thin the wallet.
 
It's not going to hurt anything. You may have to jet back a bit.
Don't expect any real performance gain, without tuning for it, as that bike was designed for unleaded fuel. The main difference between a leaded 2T motor and a unleaded motor is the shape of the combustion chamber and unless you have the thing tuned to the ragged edge you will notice no difference.
A leaded motor has a domed chamber and an unleaded motor has a "top hat" shaped chamber.
The downsides of leaded fuel far outweigh the upsides.
 
bitzz said:
The main difference between a leaded 2T motor and a unleaded motor is the shape of the combustion chamber and unless you have the thing tuned to the ragged edge you will notice no difference.
A leaded motor has a domed chamber and an unleaded motor has a "top hat" shaped chamber.
The downsides of leaded fuel far outweigh the upsides.
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Interesting info, thx bitzz. Any idea why the different chamber shape? I thought lead was mainly a benefit to the valve guides, I didn't realize it affected the burn that much.
 
Thanks for the info @bitzz, much appreciated. The good thing is that the bike has a Lectron carb, adjusting every jet is as simple as turning a knob.
The other upside is that after he mixes it with premium, he'll be paying over $7/l for fuel in his dirtbike before adding 2t oil. Lol

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My buddies Ktm 250sx pings/knocks really badly on pump gas. He's going to try unleaded race fuel with a higher octane rating to reduce detonation. He'll be mixing it with pump as well. The new Mc bikes have a lot of compression and don't always run well on just pump gas.
 
dricked said:
My buddies Ktm 250sx pings/knocks really badly on pump gas. He's going to try unleaded race fuel with a higher octane rating to reduce detonation. He'll be mixing it with pump as well. The new Mc bikes have a lot of compression and don't always run well on just pump gas.
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That would be a good reason to run expensive gas, thx dricked. Before spending that much money on fuel, personally I'd spend it on some tuning to try to avoid the need for fancy gas.
 
His bike runs perfect on pump gas, the PO really had the jetting dialed in perfectly. My buddy seems to believe that running c12 will make his bike a rocket. I'm not convinced he needs it or that it'll make that big of a difference, especially for trail riding.

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No it won't do much. Pump gas will give him more, or an oxygenated fuel. I run C12 in my HRC rs125r because I have to.
 
Iceman said:
His bike runs perfect on pump gas, the PO really had the jetting dialed in perfectly. My buddy seems to believe that running c12 will make his bike a rocket. I'm not convinced he needs it or that it'll make that big of a difference, especially for trail riding.

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... soooooooo when it doesn't do squat, you suggest he runs an heavily oxygenated fuel, which WILL make a difference trail riding.
You're a hero!

Try Pro Race fuels M2.
 
Any engine not built or tuned for high octane fuel won't benefit from it. So yes I agree your friend is probably wasting his money.

On another note, I always get a laugh out of the kids with their econobox-turned-ricerocket (complete with obligatory fart can muffler) pumping premium into the tank thinking they're +50HP because of it.
 
bitzz said:
... soooooooo when it doesn't do squat, you suggest he runs an heavily oxygenated fuel, which WILL make a difference trail riding.
You're a hero!

Try Pro Race fuels M2.
Click to expand...
No, try MR12.

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Isn't MR12 meant for 4 stroke production engines? https://vpracingfuels.com/product/mr12/

I know the 2-stroke folks use C12 (which will work in a 4-stroke as well) but as countless others already mentioned, if the engine isn't built for it, there won't really be much benefit. I put about half a tank of C12 in my FZR (which has higher compression than stock but is still built for premium pump fuel) for the simple reason that I got it for nothing ... and it didn't make it run noticeably differently. And then you have the headache of draining and purging the fuel system between uses.
 
Pro Race fuels makes their own fuel. They are competitors of VP fuels.
Pro Race Fuels is a Canadian company, owned by Mitch Markusic (I think I spelled that right). Mitch was the first in the world to have a successful unleaded race fuel, around 1986 I think. Elf used his formula for years.
If you're going to race here, Mitch is a good guy to know. He'll help out anyone that asks, and there are few people in the world that know fuel like he does. You'll find him at the track, EVERY weekend, all summer.
Mitch sells VP fuels at his kiosk at Cayuga because some people, particularly Americans, have tuned for it and ask for it.

Pro Race fuels M2 is 112 octane unleaded saturated in oxygenating agent, specific gravity of 0.744.
http://www.proracingfuels.com/wp-content/uploads/OCF-MARK2-MSDS.pdf

My issue with C12 is it is leaded. There is no reason to run leaded fuel anymore, not in 2 strokes, or vintage motors or even vintage 2 strokes.
There are more than enough stupid children.
Run any fuel ya' want. Just not leaded fuel.
Another reason not to tune for leaded fuel is every couple of years the Americans make noise about banning ALL leaded fuel, And if US bans it, Canada will follow within a week.
... and Smokey Yunick said we could run up to 13 to 1 on unleaded pump gas. You don't argue with Smokey.
 
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bitzz said:
There is no reason to run leaded fuel anymore, not in 2 strokes, or vintage motors or even vintage 2 strokes.
There are more than enough stupid children.
Run any fuel ya' want. Just not leaded fuel.
Another reason not to tune for leaded fuel is every couple of years the Americans make noise about banning ALL leaded fuel, And if US bans it, Canada will follow within a week.
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Aviation still requires leaded fuel as a good majority of general aviation aircraft require it. If it's ever banned it'll only be for on-road/race use - it'll still be available in the aviation market, no question.

I'm not saying I support it's use for on-road/off-road/race use whatsoever when alternatives exist, I'm just explaining the aviation side. In short, there will still be a source for it for those with who insist regardless.
 
Oh, I see ... Pro Racing Fuels might want to update their website 'coz it sure looks broken from here (and might be why their own fuel didn't show up in my google search).

I agree with using unleaded fuel wherever possible, and C12 and MR12 are both leaded.
 
I've had so many people over the years tell me how they can feel the extra power they get when they run higher octane. The reality is if anything you might be losing a couple HP if your engine is built for plain old 87. You'd be hard pressed to feel an extra 20hp on most cars let alone the 2hp you think you're getting from the Sunoco 94 you just dumped in your tank.

PrivatePilot said:
Any engine not built or tuned for high octane fuel won't benefit from it. So yes I agree your friend is probably wasting his money.

On another note, I always get a laugh out of the kids with their econobox-turned-ricerocket (complete with obligatory fart can muffler) pumping premium into the tank thinking they're +50HP because of it.
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SVeezy said:
I've had so many people over the years tell me how they can feel the extra power they get when they run higher octane. The reality is if anything you might be losing a couple HP if your engine is built for plain old 87. You'd be hard pressed to feel an extra 20hp on most cars let alone the 2hp you think you're getting from the Sunoco 94 you just dumped in your tank.
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Some people confuse throttle response for power. I noticed my 93 civic had better throttle response when I used 91. Race fuel in a bike CAN do the same.
 
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