Vintage Motorcycle Insurance in Toronto?

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MaksTO

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Hey all,

I just joined up and was referred to post here for an insurance question.

Im early in the licensing process currently (getting M1 Wednesday and signing up for RTI immediately after), and am hoping to ask some advice re insuring vintage bikes before I make the jump and buy one.

I read that great beginner insurance post with the insurance tree (thanks for that by the way), but it didn’t seem to mention older bikes. If I’m trying to get a quote for a UJM bike from the 70’s or 80’s, am I obliged to get classic insurance with a limited mileage etc? Or can I insure it as a normal bike? I plan to do trips and joy rides moreso than commuting, distance wise, but I’m worried a few thousand km wouldn’t cover that in a classic bike policy.

Anyone have experience with this?

Additionally, I assume getting an old, sub 500cc bike won’t make my premiums any lower (I’m 21, ugh) than if I got something newer right? I remember reading online somewhere that classic bikes are often cheaper to insure since they statistically are crashed less often? Again, I assume being 21 makes that a moot point, but just thought maybe someone here would be able to chime in.

Thanks in advance!
 
This time last year Dalton Timmis quoted me $783 for a 1988 Honda Hawk GT with $1M liability and $1000 comp. Their vintage insurance has the following restrictions:

No more then 2000 annual km’s
Motorcycle is over 25 years old
Use for show and rally’s (I don't remember if this means only can be ridden to/from/during)
You have to have three years continuous motorcycle insured
You must have your full M license

Then I got a regular quote from TD and it was only $650 for the same coverage, but no restrictions.

EDIT: Oops, must be Alzheimer's - I forgot that they sent me two quotes and the $783 was regular insurance through Echelon. Vintage was only $280 through Aviva, but they needed me to move my car and house over as well, which I wasn't ready to do, nor was I OK with their mileage/usage limitations.
 
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So I guess with some companies having an old bike means you must be in a classic/limited category but some don’t particularly care?
 
I just insured my '83 650 Silverwing. There was no mention of classic status or mileage limits with desjardin or Allstate.

Might have been a different story if I had been looking for collision coverage. Curiously, Allstate quoted more for the CBR250 than the 650cc cruiser

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I (and probably many others here) started on 80's bikes. That being said, they are now ~40 years old and provide little savings over bikes that are 20 or more years newer. I would be looking at a >2010 250 to 500 cc bike for most riders. Maybe a few years older if something scratches your itch, but most starter bikes will be almost bottomed out in price after a decade. Get an 80's bike as a second bike so you won't be sidelined when it needs wrenching.

As far as actual "historic" limitations, the MTO has historic plates for cars with a ton of restrictions, but nothing similar for bikes. It sounds like some insurance companies are picking and choosing their way through those restrictions for some policies. A good broker is your friend to sort through that mess.
 
You mean savings insurance wise right?

I’m mainly interested in an old bike for other reasons (ability to learn to self-repair and character for the most part, as well as aesthetics i guess), but it’s good to know that it won’t change the insurance price.

Thus far I’m just happy to hear experiences where people were able to insure them at all!

Thanks for the responses :)
 
Sorry, I screwed up and forgot they sent me two quotes. The one I mentioned was for regular insurance. For vintage, it would have only been 280/year with 1M/500/500 but again with the riding restrictions plus I would have had to move my car and house over to them as well, which I wasn't ready to do.
 
MaksTO said:
You mean savings insurance wise right?

I’m mainly interested in an old bike for other reasons (ability to learn to self-repair and character for the most part, as well as aesthetics i guess), but it’s good to know that it won’t change the insurance price.

Thus far I’m just happy to hear experiences where people were able to insure them at all!

Thanks for the responses :)
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Purchase price of 80's vs ~2010 will be similar. 80's bike will likely require more repairs and repairs will likely annoy old rubber parts which will quickly drive you crazy with time and money required to try to fix it. I wouldn't expect a huge difference in insurance price either. They have less data points on older bikes and fewer companies write them so you may actually have higher insurance on the older bike.

There are still lots of carbureted options around 2010 that will be little changed from the 80's bikes with respect to learning and tuning. Your first bike is not your forever bike. Buy something that lets you spend as much time as possible out on the road, not something that is a constant struggle to keep running well. Once you have some experience, that can help you narrow down what type/size of bike you want for the next ride.

For the upside of 80's bikes, I've still never ridden a bike with a rear brake that matched the feedback of my old Honda drum. It was slightly out of round so you could feel the rear wheel speed through your foot and effortlessly threshold brake the rear. Discs are just too powerful with too little feedback. Now, modern bikes have far superior front brakes so modern bikes should stop faster even if you don't touch their rear brake.
 
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That’s fair. I’m okay with working on a bike. But maybe it will be a huge hassle as you mentioned. Will see what other options there are too.

And good point re data points. Though I feel with a common bike like a cb250/350/400 that shouldn’t be too much an issue?
 
MaksTO said:
That’s fair. I’m okay with working on a bike. But maybe it will be a huge hassle as you mentioned. Will see what other options there are too.

And good point re data points. Though I feel with a common bike like a cb250/350/400 that shouldn’t be too much an issue?
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There are probably 100+ ninja 250's registered in Ontario for every cb250. Even if it was common 40 years ago, time beats down the numbers.
 
Good points all around. I may entertain something newer-ish in that case.

However, My other aversion to newer bikes / sport bikes like a ninja or cbr 250 is possible theft - I will have to park it outside all summer since I live in the downtown core, and having a traditionally undesirable or older bike might actually be in my favour in that case. I read that sport bikes are prime targets for thieves :/
 
MaksTO said:
Good points all around. I may entertain something newer-ish in that case.

However, My other aversion to newer bikes / sport bikes like a ninja or cbr 250 is possible theft - I will have to park it outside all summer since I live in the downtown core, and having a traditionally undesirable or older bike might actually be in my favour in that case. I read that sport bikes are prime targets for thieves :/
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Supersports(600 and 1L) are far more desirable than a 300 sport bike.
If you don't have a space to constantly work on your vintage bike I would steer away at this time.
Or if you do plan on wrenching more often than riding it/have mucho moolla to spend on replacing rubber and potentially rusted bits n pieces and/or labour, then yeah maybe look into vintage as an only bike.
But in that case, why not just buy a bike to work on, and insure another bike to ride at this point?
Wholeheartedly agree with the above, learn to ride now while young (and living in the downtown core) and wrench on the side or later.

*Edit: plus the CB300 neocafe from Honda looks mucho neat (preference), would love one of those to learn on. So many more options than the CBR250/125 and Ninjettes when I started (in terms of highway capable learners) but, alas, money I guess.

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Yeah I guess learning to ride and to fix at once might be biting off a bit too much at once. And the more cost effective solution would be to get something a bit newer anyway, which is also something to think about.

Appreciate all the feedback regarding this. I know the topic derailed from insurance to bike choice, but it was a helpful discussion to have for me :)

Will do more research and refer back to this thread once I get some quotes this week if needed.
 
Learning to wrench doesn't mean you need to start on an older bike. The major difference is carbs vs FI, and unless a computer goes, FI is a LOT less maintenance. I can see some logic in thinking that if you screw something up on an older bike, no problem since it's not worth so much, but keep in mind that a lot of mistakes can also cause an accident. My recommendation for learning is to get a shop manual for whichever bike you decide on, as well as a torque wrench and blue Loctite/Permatex. Then find local enthusiasts of that model and see if there's someone that's willing to give you some guidance.
 
If I could find someone whose interested in teaching me the ropes that would 100% be ideal and would probably seal my decision, but without that it would definitely be hard to learn to maintain an old bike from the get-go. And I definitely don't want to throw a chain or lose my breaks due to my own mechanical inexperience whilst driving. Yikes.

I've just spent the last hour or so scouring kijiji and craigslist in my near-ish vicinity for bikes that aren't ancient (autotrader always seems to hav very few options for bikes?), and honestly the only one I find interesting is the virago, though i'd likely want to find a lower bar for it to make it more flat and less of a cruiser.

At the same time, I found a Sym Wolf 150 for $2k, but I know they are basically cheap knockoffs of UJM bikes. Though I wonder if for a first bike it could tide me over for a while. I imagine sourcing parts for those is a nightmare, and they are all likely of poor quality if the bikes retail for around $3k new.
 
MaksTO said:
If I could find someone whose interested in teaching me the ropes that would 100% be ideal and would probably seal my decision, but without that it would definitely be hard to learn to maintain an old bike from the get-go. And I definitely don't want to throw a chain or lose my breaks due to my own mechanical inexperience whilst driving. Yikes.

I've just spent the last hour or so scouring kijiji and craigslist in my near-ish vicinity for bikes that aren't ancient (autotrader always seems to hav very few options for bikes?), and honestly the only one I find interesting is the virago, though i'd likely want to find a lower bar for it to make it more flat and less of a cruiser.

At the same time, I found a Sym Wolf 150 for $2k, but I know they are basically cheap knockoffs of UJM bikes. Though I wonder if for a first bike it could tide me over for a while. I imagine sourcing parts for those is a nightmare, and they are all likely of poor quality if the bikes retail for around $3k new.
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You're on the right path. I wouldn't buy the vast majority of chines bikes as they are disposable (and get to that point quickly). Especially as your only bike. The season is short and insurance is expensive, you want the bike ready to go every day. If you buy one of the common starter bikes, you can resell it and get your money back (or damn close) with little effort.
The chinese bike looks cheap now, but when you struggle to get any money for it at the back end, you realize it actually cost you much more Hell, this can even happen with half-reputable brands like Hyosung 250's that all blew up. People thought they were saving a bit of money and they ended up costing thousands to own instead of hundreds for the jap 250's.
 
The inexpensive category you may have heard about is for classic bikes. This insurance is made for owners of historic bikes that are >35 year old and are preserved or restored to be roadworthy. Classic bike insurance has mileage and usage limitations that prevent you from using your bike as a daily rider. Most insurers want an appraisal done before they insure the bike, both for safety purposes and valuation.
 
Mad Mike said:
The inexpensive category you may have heard about is for classic bikes. This insurance is made for owners of historic bikes that are >35 year old and are preserved or restored to be roadworthy. Classic bike insurance has mileage and usage limitations that prevent you from using your bike as a daily rider. Most insurers want an appraisal done before they insure the bike, both for safety purposes and valuation.
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That's the one thing I was worried about. Was curious if people insure "classic" bikes as a regular bike, pay more to insure, but don't have those mileage limitations imposed on it.

All said and done, I've been pretty successfully talked out of going vintage for a lot of very logical reasons at this point. So I will likely just scoop a 125-250 of some sort and learn on it, with the intent to resell for about what I paid for it when time comes to upgrade.
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