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Track Days Safe?
- Thread starter jamesjedi
- Start date
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
What group did it happen in?
Doubtful it would be red Group, as they have the smarts not to go full out first session.
Guessing yellow, as that’s where most of the “Street Heroes” end up. Overestimate their abilities and kablooey.
It really depends on who shows up in the group that day, and how hard they're trying to go fast. Single rider accidents basically don't happen at all if you're riding at 70 or 80% of your abilities. Once you start pushing closer to 100% of your personal envelope, any little distraction or misjudgment or mistake is likely to cause a panic reaction. It's the panic reaction that really causes crashes, as I've unfortunately discovered myself.
I've been track riding for maybe 5 years now, I think? I look back now and then at the pics and videos from my intro track courses. In retrospect we were going so slow in the courses that you'd think it would be impossible for people to crash at those speeds, and yet we still had a few minor incidents.
The whole sport is probably 90% mental at the novice and intermediate level, which is part of the fun and challenge. Learning to park your ego helps a lot, and being patient with the process of building up your skills.
I've been track riding for maybe 5 years now, I think? I look back now and then at the pics and videos from my intro track courses. In retrospect we were going so slow in the courses that you'd think it would be impossible for people to crash at those speeds, and yet we still had a few minor incidents.
The whole sport is probably 90% mental at the novice and intermediate level, which is part of the fun and challenge. Learning to park your ego helps a lot, and being patient with the process of building up your skills.
Priller
Well-known member
It happens, but serious stuff is pretty rare. I've seen folks carted off in the ambulance for stuff like broken collarbones occasionally. Faster tracks like Calabogie and Mosport are worse, as getting it wrong comes with higher stakes with the lack of runoff in some corners.
Comments above about the heroes in yellow are often why I'll ride in green, even though I have to coast occasionally. Yellow has the highest disparity between ambition and talent of the groups, and so someone else's bad day can become yours. I'd rather follow a slowpoke for a few corners than have an idiot try to recreate his MotoGP fantasies and outbrake themselves on the line. I'm not setting any lap records, so better to have fun than get the red mist.
Still, it's never going to be without risk, much as that sucks sometimes. Frankly, the risk is a big part of what makes it so engaging, as the stakes are part of the fun. Otherwise, you might as well play a video game...
Comments above about the heroes in yellow are often why I'll ride in green, even though I have to coast occasionally. Yellow has the highest disparity between ambition and talent of the groups, and so someone else's bad day can become yours. I'd rather follow a slowpoke for a few corners than have an idiot try to recreate his MotoGP fantasies and outbrake themselves on the line. I'm not setting any lap records, so better to have fun than get the red mist.
Still, it's never going to be without risk, much as that sucks sometimes. Frankly, the risk is a big part of what makes it so engaging, as the stakes are part of the fun. Otherwise, you might as well play a video game...
This might sound weird to a lot of people, but it's so very true. I'm an anxious person, but I have never felt more calm or relaxed than driving home after a full track day of pushing right to the edge of my personal limit, where there is real risk.
IMO, riding track is safer than riding street because:
- there is a mandatory tech inspection of bikes and safety gear, which means there are no squids wearing running shoes, beanie helmets and ICON vests. Everyone is kitted out in leathers, back protector, boots and gauntlet gloves, and bikes are properly maintained
- all traffic moving in the same direction, so there's virtually no chance of a head-on collision
- most tracks have plenty of run-off with no curbs, telephone poles, park benches at the side of the road to cause injury: "it's not the fall that hurts you, it's the sudden stop"
- marshalls stationed to see every inch of the track, so they're able to warn and flag down riders in the event of an accident, and ambulance and emergency staff on standby
- the track is a controlled environment with no other cars, kids, pets, etc. running out in the road in front of you. A bear does live at the end of Turn 5 at Calabogie, but nobody has ever crashed into it before.
The risk of injury is greater on the street. However, the risk of pranging up your bike or scuffing up your leathers/gear is greater on the track because you are exploring your limits of traction, lean angle, acceleration and braking.
- there is a mandatory tech inspection of bikes and safety gear, which means there are no squids wearing running shoes, beanie helmets and ICON vests. Everyone is kitted out in leathers, back protector, boots and gauntlet gloves, and bikes are properly maintained
- all traffic moving in the same direction, so there's virtually no chance of a head-on collision
- most tracks have plenty of run-off with no curbs, telephone poles, park benches at the side of the road to cause injury: "it's not the fall that hurts you, it's the sudden stop"
- marshalls stationed to see every inch of the track, so they're able to warn and flag down riders in the event of an accident, and ambulance and emergency staff on standby
- the track is a controlled environment with no other cars, kids, pets, etc. running out in the road in front of you. A bear does live at the end of Turn 5 at Calabogie, but nobody has ever crashed into it before.
The risk of injury is greater on the street. However, the risk of pranging up your bike or scuffing up your leathers/gear is greater on the track because you are exploring your limits of traction, lean angle, acceleration and braking.
Thank you for the amazing replies. The accident took away from the fun of the day.
From what others have said, the accident happened when a rider with 20 years of track experience joined a session late. He hit an instructor. I think they were weaving through the cones, and perhaps his group did not normally do this. Obviously, there is always a risk. However, you don’t want to see anybody get hurt seriously hurt.
Oddly though, I did not feel Unsafe. Perhaps due to the inexperience and not riding at 11/10ths. Meaning, no big long straits and incredible speed.
From what others have said, the accident happened when a rider with 20 years of track experience joined a session late. He hit an instructor. I think they were weaving through the cones, and perhaps his group did not normally do this. Obviously, there is always a risk. However, you don’t want to see anybody get hurt seriously hurt.
Oddly though, I did not feel Unsafe. Perhaps due to the inexperience and not riding at 11/10ths. Meaning, no big long straits and incredible speed.
I suppose it's worth mentioning the caveat that most of the things that make a track day safer require some work put in. Tech inspections, marshals, medics on-site, track maintenance, etc. Not all track days are equal in this regard
I am kinda raising an eyebrow at the circumstances of this incident. It's been a while, but FAST generally eases you into the day, no? Nobody is going all out in the morning yet I thought
I am kinda raising an eyebrow at the circumstances of this incident. It's been a while, but FAST generally eases you into the day, no? Nobody is going all out in the morning yet I thought
It's worth thinking about two components of risk that are relevant:
a) the probability (likelihood) of the risk manifesting
b) the consequences if the risk does manifest itself
It's hard to say anything with certainty, but the probability of a crash on track is generally going to be higher than on the street, assuming that you're riding somewhere near your limit. In terms of crashes-per-kilometer, you're going to see a lot more crashes on the track than on the street.
However, the consequences of crashes on track can be lower than crashes on the street. The main difference is that there are no concrete curbs, light poles, metal guardrails or oncoming traffic to hit if you fall off on the track. Hitting immovable objects like this at any roadgoing speed can straight up kill you, and they are everywhere on the street. People don't like to think about this, but there is no protective gear that can mitigate these kind of forces. The absence of these types of objects in a track environment means that the most common really bad street accidents (hitting an immovable object or an oncoming vehicle) very rarely happen on track.
Really bad track accidents can still occur, of course, but simply falling off isn't usually life-threatening.
I have crashed both on the street and the track, the one that mentally shook me was the street. I hit some dirt mid corner so was freaked out of back roads for a while, something that I never have to worry about on the track.
This past weekend I learned the hard way that my bike has a brake issue when it locked up unexpectedly with minor brake pressure twice, chucking me to the ground hard two times in 24 hours. Both times I had people by my side in probably under 30 seconds, including an ambulance. That's something you won't have on the street.
There are some track days that are sketchier than others, the more lax they seem on the rulesb the more I'd steer clear. The more racers that go to them, the more I'd trust them.
This past weekend I learned the hard way that my bike has a brake issue when it locked up unexpectedly with minor brake pressure twice, chucking me to the ground hard two times in 24 hours. Both times I had people by my side in probably under 30 seconds, including an ambulance. That's something you won't have on the street.
There are some track days that are sketchier than others, the more lax they seem on the rulesb the more I'd steer clear. The more racers that go to them, the more I'd trust them.
I am reading that an instructor got hit by a student that was weaving through cones. If that is the case then the instructor most likely did not have a helmet on. And may have hit head to head with the rider? At a normal track day there is no weaving through cones or people on the track. Serious can happen but it is rare. Don't watch people in front of you crash or you will end up in the dirt with them, look where you want to go. I would feel safer riding in shorts on a track than on a road. For reasons mentioned in other posts above.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
No knee drag for you!
Ouch. Glad you're ok. What was going wrong with your brakes to cause that?
Fuzzbuster
Well-known member
I went through FAST years ago and don't remember any cones except in the turns as markers. From what I remember it was mostly on track, no parking lot stuff. And the morning was class room followed by track walk. Have things changed that much since Mercier left?
Perhaps it was the new "Fast Street Riding Course":
There was a Fast Street course held just this last May 17th, so maybe OP was taking this course?
Fuzzbuster
Well-known member
Possibly! It definitely does not sound like the ones I took!
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