Tire snobs

[J_F]

quick question:

when riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail
what is the usual cause?

 

[ungoloth]

I ran Dunlop in the 70's on 1973 Kaw 900, Pirelli in the 80's on Kaw 900 ninja and 750 turbo, Metz in the 90's on Kaw ZX11, Bridgestone s22's recently on 2015 Kaw ZX10r and now trying Michelin road 5's on 2019 Kaw ZX10R.
So far I like the road 5,s but they are pricey. Over all I guess the Bridgestone S22's are my favorite and they are also affordable.

 

[ungoloth]

quick question:

when riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail
what is the usual cause?

It's almost always due to target fixation. Fixating on something irrelative and not looking where you're suppose to be going. Your bike follows your hands and your hands follow your eyes. This also applies to riding equestrian lol

 

[GreyGhost]

quick question:

when riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail
what is the usual cause?

The rider, not the bike, not the tires. The bike always has more to give (assuming the rider hasn't gone in incredibly hot), the rider screws it up.

 

[Mad Mike]

quick question:

when riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail
what is the usual cause?

The Harley.

 

[J_F]

panic

they think they're too hot for the corner
they freeze because they have no confidence that the tires will maintain traction
in most cases the bike/tires are capable of getting around the corner

I'm not going to put doubt in my riding to save a few bucks on tires

 

[Mad Mike]

quick question:

when riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail
what is the usual cause?

I have witnessed this first hand more than a dozen times in the last few years, in all cases I have seen it's simply a matter of rider experience. The tires were fine, the bike was fine, a capable rider would have been fine -- the rider simply exited their skill envelope then entered a learning envelope.

Unfortunately there is a lot to learn and you only get one second for the course.

 

[ReSTored]

........... riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail. what is the usual cause?

IMHO, I think 95%+ of riders blowing a turn and ending up in the ditch are target fixated, panicked or whatever and no where near the limits of their tires. You need muscle memory to push or counter steer instinctively if you are unsettled in a turn vs. freaking out and running off the road.

 

[jeff96]

I've had Kendas that I've worn down to cord and been happy to replace with the same. I've had Michelins that I couldn't wait to get rid of. Like running shoes, when I find a model I like, I stick with it. (No pun intended)

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[Trials]

quick question:

when riders blow a corner and run off into the cat tails or a guard rail
what is the usual cause?

Rider exceeded traction expectations and failed to negotiate the turn?

... did the front wheel slide first, the rear wheel slide first or did they both slide the same amount? That would indicate a front to rear balance problem,
or just too damn fast if you slid out both tires :| good work! Keep that up just go a little slower.

 

[jeff96]

The stock front tire on my 2004 ZX10R gave the bike head-shake when slowing down through about 70 km/h, and it was a common complaint, not just me, and the recommendation back then was "Replace that tire with anything else", and it was true. Haven't had it happen with any other front tire since. It was bad enough that I'm surprised it got through OEM validation testing.

Same bike, Bridgestone BT016 tires made it steer like riding through glue. Hated those. "Replace with anything else" problem solved.

There are certainly differences in wear patterns and longevity.

On my race bike (Yamaha R3), I had one set of Michelin Evo tires on it, and I could not solve them threatening to slide the front before the rear before I wore them out (which didn't take very long). I know someone else (on a different bike) who swears by those tires. I swore at them.

I had zero complaints about the Bridgestone slicks that I used on my previous race bike; I have zero complaints about the Dunlop slicks that I'm using on the current one.

I don't mean to take this too far off topic, but what do you mean by feels like riding through glue?
I have a new to me bike that seems to need a lot more countersteering effort than my other bike to make it lean into a turn. I assumed it's just a matter of getting used to it, but someone suggested tires. Would different tires of the same correct size cause a bike to 'ride on rails'? (The tire has low mileage but is 5 years old)

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[jeff96]

Rider exceeded traction expectations and failed to negotiate the turn?

... did the front wheel slide first, the rear wheel slide first or did they both slide the same amount?

I think he's referring to inexperienced riders that just go wide and ride off the road.

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[Trials]

You know, the problem with discovering your motorcycles handling performance limitations, is that you have to crash to find them once in a while. ?

 

[Trials]

I think he's referring to inexperienced riders that just go wide and ride off the road.

What tire slid first? If said rider failed to discover the root cause, then they failed to learn from the experience.
... just rode wide for no apparent reason :/ they never even tried hard enough to turn. That was a dumb move don't do that again, try harder.

 

[Trials]

... new to me bike that seems to need a lot more countersteering effort than my other bike ...

? yep, that happens.
Like when you put clip on handlebars on a motorcycle that really needs wider handlebars that provide more leverage.
Some bikes (MV Agusta) you just have to think about wanting to turn and it seems to happen ? those are called bikes that inspire faster riding.

 

[jeff96]

What about bar risers? Would that make the bike harder to lean? (2005 Concours 1000) I'm not too worried about it. We haven't gotten to know each other yet

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[Trials]

What about bar risers? Would that make the bike harder to lean? (2005 Concours 1000) I'm not too worried about it. We haven't gotten to know each other yet

Taller bars tends to increase leverage.
I have them on one of my two trials bikes and it makes it easier to ride over the really big stuff.
... also makes your initial body position more upright. Much better for going down crazy steep drops.


"2005 Concours 1000" They steer lazy like a german sport touring litre bike.
... feels like you have to muscle it around tight corners, right?

 

[jeff96]

I try to avoid crazy steep drops on a 650 lb bike. I'm a coward that way.

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[Trials]

The moto trial sport is different and extreme, but the vehicles geometry and principals are completely relevant.
Anything you can do on a 160 pound motorcycle is very much the same process as when you are on a big fat obscenely heavy motorcycle.

 

[jeff96]

@Trials Yes. It will get down into a lean, but it takes a lot more countersteering to do it. I wasn't expecting that compared to my GL650i which is deceptively nimble in comparison.

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