Throttle/brake control through corners?

[油井緋色]

I think I've developed some extremely bad habits over the years and would like some advice from faster guys.

On sweepers (Shannonville turns come in mind, along with all highway ramps), I tend to drop the throttle before entering along w/ braking while shifting my body over. Once the lean in is complete, I'll crack open the throttle slowly. Note that the throttle is never fully closed though.

I've carried this method into slower speed turns which causes the bike to feel sluggish and therefore robs confidence on how aggressive I decide to turn in. What do you faster riders do in slower corners like Shannonville's slow right before the back straight or Mosport RDT's slow left turn with respect to throttle and brake control? Is the throttle closed completely while leaning in? (Turn 4 or 5 depending if you count the minor kink before a turn, or how you count the chicane at the beginning).

 

[Serialize]

I think I've developed some extremely bad habits over the years and would like some advice from faster guys.

On sweepers (Shannonville turns come in mind, along with all highway ramps), I tend to drop the throttle before entering along w/ braking while shifting my body over. Once the lean in is complete, I'll crack open the throttle slowly. Note that the throttle is never fully closed though.

I've carried this method into slower speed turns which causes the bike to feel sluggish and therefore robs confidence on how aggressive I decide to turn in. What do you faster riders do in slower corners like Shannonville's slow right before the back straight or Mosport RDT's slow left turn with respect to throttle and brake control? Is the throttle closed completely while leaning in? (Turn 4 or 5 depending if you count the minor kink before a turn, or how you count the chicane at the beginning).

The hairpin going into the back straight at SMP is extreme late braking, yes would be completely off the throttle for a sec when trail braking to tip it in, while you hang off to make the turn, try and pickup the bike as soon as you can while opening the throttle smoothly at the same time (that drive will help feel stable and pickup the bike for a strong exit). You can "prep" your body position early by starting to hang off already when braking (since small corner not much time once you're already in it).

 

[LWTRacer]

Going on to the back straight, it depends on what bike you are riding.

On the LWT bikes on Pro track corner 3 and 4 I get all my braking done so its just a quick gear change down while I am going from left to right with my body, then I hammer on the gas at the apex.

On the bigger bikes 600cc+ I tend to trail brake whislt moving my body over to the right, and again hitting the gas a little early, hopefully spinning the rear up and squaring off the corner to get a better drive.

 

[油井緋色]

The hairpin going into the back straight at SMP is extreme late braking, yes would be completely off the throttle for a sec when trail braking to tip it in, while you hang off to make the turn, try and pickup the bike as soon as you can while opening the throttle smoothly at the same time (that drive will help feel stable and pickup the bike for a strong exit). You can "prep" your body position early by starting to hang off already when braking (since small corner not much time once you're already in it).

I'm going to try this. I think having the throttle slightly cracked open while braking and dipping in is causing some sluggishness and me running wide for the turn in.

 

[gsxr guy]

I'm going to try this. I think having the throttle slightly cracked open while braking and dipping in is causing some sluggishness and me running wide for the turn in.

Anytime I must brake, the throttle is completely closed and stays closed until it is time to start accelerating again. Not sure why you would want to have throttle open while trying to slow down?

 

[油井緋色]

Anytime I must brake, the throttle is completely closed and stays closed until it is time to start accelerating again. Not sure why you would want to have throttle open while trying to slow down?

****** habits from reading Twist of the Wrist years ago and taking it too literally.

Also on the 125s, the first bike I hit the track with, the throttle was never closed. Some turns you could enter WOT and there'd be no reduction on how nimble the thing was.

 

[BigEvilDoer]

Read up on trail braking. /end thread.

 

[dricked]

Heavy trail braking to apex, full gas asap after the apex.

 

[LWTRacer]

Heavy trail braking to apex, full gas asap after the apex.

This doesnt work if he is running a little bike...with little to no power. You have to keep that momentum up, which means setting up that hair pin starting 2-3 corners early

 

[dricked]

This doesnt work if he is running a little bike...with little to no power. You have to keep that momentum up, which means setting up that hair pin starting 2-3 corners early

So gas from turn 2 no brakes?

He didn't mention the size of bike. My reply was regarding a big bike.

 

[gsxr guy]

This doesnt work if he is running a little bike...with little to no power. You have to keep that momentum up, which means setting up that hair pin starting 2-3 corners early

He used to ride racer5 125s, now he's on a 750 gsxr I believe.

 

[sempre1]

So gas from turn 2 no brakes?

He didn't mention the size of bike. My reply was regarding a big bike.

I guess LWTRacer doesn't know you're a Canadian champ.

 

[LWTRacer]

So gas from turn 2 no brakes?

He didn't mention the size of bike. My reply was regarding a big bike.

I wasn't meaning to seem insulting to your know how fyi...

And I was going by the fact his flair has a CBR125 in it. My mistake.

But lets say coming onto the front straight at shannonville on a CBR250 or hell even my Bandit 400. Let off the gas for a split second into corner one, shift body weight over and just steer through corner 2, up shift into 4th on the short shoot to 3 back down 2 gears into 2nd and brake, little blip of throttle to 4 (no braking) then a quick down shift into 1st again no brakes as your positioning for the right onto the back straight...then just open up the throttle right at the apex. The bikes dont make enough power to spit you off there.

Eric Quinten showed me this line last year, I occationally tap the fronts between 1 and 2 to settle the front end during the change of direction (but that was mostly due to **** suspension set up, and big wide superbike bars).

But all of this is irrelevant if he is on a GSX-R750

 

[油井緋色]

^
Yes, it's a GSXR750 now hence why I was a bit confused last year.

With the 125, I was never completely off the gas. Trail braking was done regardless. Flicking the bike w/ the gas slightly open was easy.

On the 750, if the throttle is even cracked open slightly, there's enough resistance that I'll get pushed wide unless I really push the bike over but my instincts are saying bad idea. The other day I was going for a ride and decided to try a turn in without any gas and it was much quicker...hence why I'm asking now.

With the suggestions for heavy trail braking; are you suggesting to keep the throttle cracked open with brakes and turn in? I understand afterwards to apply gas and release brakes appropriately.

 

[gsxr guy]

No throttle when trail braking, and it takes time to learn. Trail braking keeps the front compressed until gforce takes over so the front is not moving up and down between braking and full lean, easier said then done.

 

[dricked]

I wasn't meaning to seem insulting to your know how fyi...

And I was going by the fact his flair has a CBR125 in it. My mistake.

But lets say coming onto the front straight at shannonville on a CBR250 or hell even my Bandit 400. Let off the gas for a split second into corner one, shift body weight over and just steer through corner 2, up shift into 4th on the short shoot to 3 back down 2 gears into 2nd and brake, little blip of throttle to 4 (no braking) then a quick down shift into 1st again no brakes as your positioning for the right onto the back straight...then just open up the throttle right at the apex. The bikes dont make enough power to spit you off there.

Eric Quinten showed me this line last year, I occationally tap the fronts between 1 and 2 to settle the front end during the change of direction (but that was mostly due to **** suspension set up, and big wide superbike bars).

But all of this is irrelevant if he is on a GSX-R750

No offence taken, it's all good. I couldn't tell you how to get a small bike around the track as I've never ridden one. I would assume you still need to slow down for the hairpin though if you charge hard enough through the previous corner correct?

And ya, brakes or gas, choose one. Obviously there's exceptions but as far as this discussion goes it's one or the other.

 

[MurfSVR]

go to a school like cornerspin in North Carolina - life changing


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[racepro171]

dude, i dont brake for T1 on 1000cc so I sure as hell would not even roll off on a 400. you prolly lose .5 sec just there alone.

 

[LWTRacer]

dude, i dont brake for T1 on 1000cc so I sure as hell would not even roll off on a 400. you prolly lose .5 sec just there alone.

I don't brake Jim. And I guess I don't really roll off more hold constant throttle on the 400.

It's at about 11,500rpm mid corner so it's a little twitchy lol.

I'll try and hold flat stick now that I have proper suspension/tires up front lol.

Bring on lwt production!

 

[Mikeyboy]

Thanks gents, interesting reading.
I'm riding a CBR250 now and find the section from turn-in for 3, through 4 to exit from 5 (on Shanny-Pro) the most difficult part of the lap. I know I lose a ****-load of time through there.
Gonna try and take your comments on-board