The King’s Highway known as No. 404 (southbound) and its ramps and off-ramps | GTAMotorcycle.com

The King’s Highway known as No. 404 (southbound) and its ramps and off-ramps

M

MarcosSantiago

Well-known member
I would say that everyone in Ontario is clear on the meaning of "King’s Highway known as No. 404 (southbound)"

But I am looking for the legal reference that an off - ramp is part (or not) of the 404 itself.

Any ideas?
 
“highway” includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; (“voie publique”)

“King’s Highway” includes the secondary highways and tertiary roads designated under the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act; (“route principale”)
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http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm

According to that definition, any roadway in Ontario can be deemed a highway, ramps included.
 
nfq said:
According to that definition, any roadway in Ontario can be deemed a highway, ramps included.
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What section are you reading?

What I meant is this: A car is travelling on the 404 and takes an off-ramp to exit to (let's say for the sake of argument) another 400 series highway, such as the 407.

Is the off-ramp part of the 404? Or...
Is it part of the 407?
Or...
Is it something else by itself?
 
The general idea, is that the on or off ramp is simply a continuation of the road from which it originated.

So, an on-ramp from Victoria Park onto the 401, is technically a part of Victoria Park until where the merger lane begins. The same appies for the exit ramp, as a continuation of thte 401 until it intersects Victoria park.

However, I cannot locate any specific law or regulation which addresses this.

What is the reasoning for this? I presume a speeding ticket on an off ramp?
 
Grimmy said:
What is the reasoning for this? I presume a speeding ticket on an off ramp?
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Yes, something like that (not speeding)

It is to help a friend. I am trying to explore the possibility that the ramp is (technically speaking) not part of the 404, or at least there is a legal difference between the two
I will post more details a bit later (maybe after the court date)

If anyone can point me to a resource, it will be very much appreciated
 
I think you may be SOL on this one. Maybe a friendly call to your local ticket fighting guy for some 'advice' may help?
 
NOT part of the highway...

Well, the only way that would be in effect, would be a simple argument of where traffic controls change from highway, to where the driver is being controlled by the surface street. So, I would say once the ramp turns into lanes, or where the stop lights/signage is visible to the driver, they are then under control of the surface street, and are no longer subject to the freeway rules and limits.

Its a fine line between the two, I know, but thats the only logical argument I would have to a judge.

I unfortunately do not have access to the resourses I used to to check for case law.

Looking at Canlii, and a civil suit between two construction companies, it was noted the access and exit ramps were part of the highway being discussed.

I have a feeling your friend might be out of luck..... unless a paralegal or lawyer knows better than I.
 
What about using the speed limit?
I know most exit ramps have a yellow sign showing reduced speeds on the ramps.
Does a road continue to be a highway at the reduced speed section? I understand that construction would be a cause for a reduction in speed and appropriate signage to be placed, but on a regular piece of pavement without any such obstruction?

Just a pondering which might lead you down another potential train of thought, and not based on any such type of legal knowledge.
 
I think there is some mis-information on this thread. Your best bet is going to be to call the MoT General Information line and ask them for the office in MoT for Highway Management. Then write to the Highway Management for a Map of the highways in Ontario. Also you could ask them in writing for the starts and stops of the highways on which you need greater clarification.

That's going to be the 'legal' clarification you are requesting.

But I can tell you, that the off-ramps of a controlled access highway are part of the highway until the end of the ramp meets the controlled access to the roadway. However, my understanding of this and other's opinions on this forum ain't going to amount to any "legal" sh**.
 
One could argue that once you could not legally turn back, you had left the road you were travelling. Backing up is illegal. The beginning of an on or off ramp would be the point.
Good luck
 
nobbie48 said:
One could argue that once you could not legally turn back, you had left the road you were travelling. Backing up is illegal. The beginning of an on or off ramp would be the point.
Good luck
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I strongly doubt the definition of the starting point of a 'controlled access highway' is defined by the ability to "turn back". However, this won't be confirmed unless someone can cite a specific case or a document from the MoT.
 
I'm drawing a complete blank here. Can't find a single reference that specifies whether or not the ramps are considered part of the King's Highway or not. If you could give some more detail, then at least I would be able to search case law. For example if this is an issue of a tow truck driver parking too close to a collision site at which sufficient trucks are already present, then which highway he's on doesn't matter. Being too close, on a King's Highway, is all that matters.
 
I am really interested in the rest of the story!! Trying to give and answer to the question is hopeless without the reason for the question.

A lot of the definitions of roads are administrative more than legal. By law every road we drive on is considered a highway. That is why it is call the Highway Traffic Act.

But then when you are talking King's Highway, that mostly means the province is responsible for the maintenance rather than the region or the city. A good example is back in the bad old Harris days he changed a pile of roads from Kings Highways to regional roads. Voila instant cost saving for the province who no longer had to plow them. Of course, they still had to be plowed but by the Region. He looks good the region goes broke. (Ya I stuck in some political commentary there.)

The yellow speed signs are warning signs not regulatory signs. They are warning of the optimal speed for the ramp. But they have to be used for 18 wheelers and motorcycles. You think they both need to take the ramp at the same speed? I wish half the people driving Economy size cars knew this as the slow down to 30km/h on a ramp when they could take it 60km/h with no issue.

Ramps are for speeding up and down to ensure merging between different speeds is done safely. I cannot imagine getting a speeding ticket on them. But then the OP said it is not about speed.

Is this about getting a ticket from a local officer versus an OPP officer. Non-starter. The police have the right to issue a ticket no matter the jurisdiction.

I mean the ramp is "highway" in Ontario that just means somewhere you drive. You do something on the ramp it is just like every other piece of road.

We could continue to guess but we are wasting our time.

Finally if you have ever fought a ticket, you will know the JOP's are not your giant legal minds. I think they mostly have kissed a lot of @ss. You can give some incredible legal argument and mostly they will find you guilty. They are not looking to set case law.
 
Hard to tell why this matters. unless you are trying to say that the ticket is "wrong" because he wrote 404 when you were on the offramp. In which case I would say... good try champ.
 
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