The Isis Thread

[FattBoyy]

Forum Sponsor

Here is what I don't understand about isis..

They are 50 km away from Israel,, the biggest enemy and target of any "Islamist terrorist group" but they have not attacked Israel once.. And they choose to travel 5000 km around the world to cause terror when their biggest enemy is 50 km away..

just a couple of days ago they killed 120 in Afghanistan (Muslims) and they have killed far more Muslims then non-Muslims

Something does not add up right? What does Gtam think

 

[fastar1]

It's hard for us to appreciate from our perspective as targets, but ISIS is at it's heart an internal Islamic power struggle to fill the void left by the Iraq wars and the Arab Spring. The West is in mixed up in it because of our oil interests in the region. Otherwise we could watch from a distance as they tear each other apart, or as they install some form of authoritarian regime for the region.

The Israel question is a good one, hadn't really thought of it. I mean they've been under terrorist attack for so long, maybe the difference between an age-old Palestinian attack and an ISIS attack is undetectable? Especially if they're working together. Just dunno.

 

[Zoodles95]

I think they know that if they really went after Israel they would be toast. Also, part of their agenda seems to be to build an Islamic state. Get that done first before you go after Israel and other agendas in the region. While I think they are certifiable wingnuts that are trying to recreate the dark ages there are some legitimate beefs that they have. Whether it is Sykes-Picot, lines drawn after WWII, the Gold Standard being replaced by the US dollar for petrodollars, U.S. foreign policy...

The terrorist attacks which have taken place in the West (EU, U.S., Canada etc) pale in comparison to the bloodshed and misery which Muslims suffer regularly at the hands of these nutters. The problem now is that trying to deal with this organization is like "whack a mole". It is an ideology more than a territory or sovereign state and for every attack that kills one of the main officers the innocent civilians affected by the attack could make 3-4 future terrorists whose lives have just been shattered by the collateral damage that ripped their lives apart. Also, ISIS is in Africa in the form of Boko Haram and other franchises.

I am at a loss to even begin to comprehend how to close the Pandora's box which was opened when Bin Laden and others were armed and trained to essentially fight a proxy war against the then Soviet Union.

 

[nobbie48]

I am at a loss to even begin to comprehend how to close the Pandora's box which was opened when Bin Laden and others were armed and trained to essentially fight a proxy war against the then Soviet Union.

Is there an expiry date on the western supplied weapons used to fight the USSR?

 

[Neil_V]

Is there an expiry date on the western supplied weapons used to fight the USSR?

They have all the stuff we left behind... read into that what you will.

 

[raginduck]

Is there an expiry date on the western supplied weapons used to fight the USSR?

The 'west' keeps them in fresh supply...

 

[vociferous]

didn't Isis have a cool pink/white custom small-displacement bike, I reemember her from back around '05ish. Met her at the gtam booth at a bike show sometime back then.

 

[Blackfin]

They have all the stuff we left behind... read into that what you will.

Looks like an Iraqi Army tank of Russian/Soviet origin (T-55 pictured, I believe...) Not really "we": They walk over the Iraqi army and take what's left behind.

 

[mimico_polak]

I think one of the problems is that when 'we' got rid of Gadafi, Saddam, and other dictators in the region we kind of got rid of the guys that kept them in check. A brutal dictator is a brutal dictator, but when things aren't going his way then he doesn't wait and go through political channels he just goes for the kill of whatever is not toeing the line...just a theory my colleague and I were throwing around a few weeks ago.

Also doesn't help that the West keeps funding 'moderate' groups to help deal with the extreme nutters an then those same 'moderates' turn extreme with newer weapons and training...then cycle repeats...

 

[Blackfin]

I think one of the problems is that when 'we' got rid of Gadafi, Saddam, and other dictators in the region we kind of got rid of the guys that kept them in check.

That I'll agree with though it wasn't exactly "we"; it was a bunch of loony neo-conservatives operating out of the GWB White House that is basically directly responsible. A lot of people foresaw bad things happening from creating a power vacuum in that part of the world.

 

[Zoodles95]

That I'll agree with though it wasn't exactly "we"; it was a bunch of loony neo-conservatives operating out of the GWB White House that is basically directly responsible. A lot of people foresaw bad things happening from creating a power vacuum in that part of the world.

Got to go way back before then... Lots of bad foreign policy choices during Reagan's years running the show. Frankly, there is lots of blame to go around if you want to go back to Sykes-Picot and that is over 100 years ago. Again, I have no idea how in the world to fix this or even mitigate it.

Another problem is that the West has some weird bedfellows in the region. What in the heck are we doing having the Saudis as an ally; let alone selling arms to them? Israel is also an ally and I will never defend how they treat the Palestinians. Why does Iran get the cold shoulder when the Saudis are the ones espousing Wahhabism and their extreme brand of the Sunni faith and also seem to have their fingers in a lot of terrorism? If the West were to adapt a form of U.S. 1930s Isolationism then what about the innocent Muslims suffering from Nutbar terrorists which the West helped create? What a sad mess...

 

[-D-]

simple stuff
you need war to keep the economy built on war going

no war, no money, chaos

 

[Blackfin]

Got to go way back before then... Lots of bad foreign policy choices during Reagan's years running the show. Frankly, there is lots of blame to go around if you want to go back to Sykes-Picot and that is over 100 years ago. Again, I have no idea how in the world to fix this or even mitigate it.

The problem is not just "the West". If you want to go to the real root of the problem you need to look at the Bronze Age Abrahamic religions that dominate the region and the fact that certain among them have failed to experience the "Enlightenment" that others among them went through hundreds of years ago.

 

[mmmnaked]

Got to go way back before then... Lots of bad foreign policy choices during Reagan's years running the show. Frankly, there is lots of blame to go around if you want to go back to Sykes-Picot and that is over 100 years ago. Again, I have no idea how in the world to fix this or even mitigate it.

There are many ways - none of them compatible with bleeding heart political correctness, unfortunately.

 

[Neil_V]

Got to go way back before then... Lots of bad foreign policy choices during Reagan's years running the show. Frankly, there is lots of blame to go around if you want to go back to Sykes-Picot and that is over 100 years ago. Again, I have no idea how in the world to fix this or even mitigate it.

Another problem is that the West has some weird bedfellows in the region. What in the heck are we doing having the Saudis as an ally; let alone selling arms to them? Israel is also an ally and I will never defend how they treat the Palestinians. Why does Iran get the cold shoulder when the Saudis are the ones espousing Wahhabism and their extreme brand of the Sunni faith and also seem to have their fingers in a lot of terrorism? If the West were to adapt a form of U.S. 1930s Isolationism then what about the innocent Muslims suffering from Nutbar terrorists which the West helped create? What a sad mess...

Because the Saudis play ball with the world elites, where as the Iranians stopped in the 70's, even before the revolution. If Iran went back to letting the big players take half their oil profits they'd be back in favour over night.

Forum Sponsor