The enormous Gov't debt - is it truly debt?

LBV

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So we all know that the debt by all Governments around the world has been going through the roof to pay for all the Covid-19 financial relief for both businesses and individuals.

We also know that since there's no longer a Gold Standard to mandate having physical gold to be able to initiate printing of paper money that the presses are spinning overtime to print money hand over fist and so the so-called "debt" continues to go up and up such that we talk about our grand kids still paying off this Covid-19 incurred debt.

But is it ALL truly debt?

In my mind, I see it as one branch of the Gov't (the Finance Dept) owing money to another branch (the Bank of Canada that prints the money). It's the left pocket owing the right pocket.

Yes, there's legitimate debt issued to other countries and individuals in the forms of bonds, t-bills, etc. but I'd say that by far it's just phantom debt. It's like your savings account loaning your chequing account funds to pay the bills.

How could it be otherwise when the whole world is experiencing the SAME issues having to pay financial relief? If phony debt didn't exist, you'd always have equilibrium in that 1 country would be be the loaner and the other the debtor, but I suspect if you added up all the $ lent and all the $ borrowed in the world, it would not be zero.

I can't see it being otherwise and that's why the $ is spent so superfluously and hopefully the Bank of Canada will just forgive the Finance Dept's loans at some point ... I pray for my kids and future grand kids that I'm right.
 
So we all know that the debt by all Governments around the world has been going through the roof to pay for all the Covid-19 financial relief for both businesses and individuals.

We also know that since there's no longer a Gold Standard to mandate having physical gold to be able to initiate printing of paper money that the presses are spinning overtime to print money hand over fist and so the so-called "debt" continues to go up and up such that we talk about our grand kids still paying off this Covid-19 incurred debt.

But is it ALL truly debt?

In my mind, I see it as one branch of the Gov't (the Finance Dept) owing money to another branch (the Bank of Canada that prints the money). It's the left pocket owing the right pocket.

Yes, there's legitimate debt issued to other countries and individuals in the forms of bonds, t-bills, etc. but I'd say that by far it's just phantom debt. It's like your savings account loaning your chequing account funds to pay the bills.

How could it be otherwise when the whole world is experiencing the SAME issues having to pay financial relief? If phony debt didn't exist, you'd always have equilibrium in that 1 country would be be the loaner and the other the debtor, but I suspect if you added up all the $ lent and all the $ borrowed in the world, it would not be zero.

I can't see it being otherwise and that's why the $ is spent so superfluously and hopefully the Bank of Canada will just forgive the Finance Dept's loans at some point ... I pray for my kids and future grand kids that I'm right.
That is interesting but can only be possible at the federal level as they have control of the currency. Any lower gov't debt (essentially provincial as I think municipal is verboten) is a real loan that has to be paid back with interest.

The world is not experiencing the "same" financial relief. Most countries are floating some financial relief. JT is spending at roughly an order of magnitude faster than every other country in the world. If you spend faster than all of your neighbours and don't make tons more money than they do, it doesn't last long before the whole thing collapses (ultimately currency devaluation and hyper-inflation but we are a long way from that still).
 
So we all know that the debt by all Governments around the world has been going through the roof to pay for all the Covid-19 financial relief for both businesses and individuals.
Some governments are printing a lot more then others...

1b67b8d0-17f9-11eb-afdf-463e45e55308.png

That blip in 2009 was govts trying to mitigate the financial crisis... Have a look where Canada is sitting now.

Bank of Canada becomes world champion in money printing as its assets grow by 456%YoY

edit. added a link to some fairly straight forward info.
 
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I dont know enough about economics to comment

but I do know enough to be somewhat concerned
It's almost never good to be way out in the rhubarb. If we were in the rest of the pack (like in 2009) I would have no concern. When we vastly exceed the combined total of everybody else, I am incredibly concerned.
 
That is interesting but can only be possible at the federal level as they have control of the currency. Any lower gov't debt (essentially provincial as I think municipal is verboten) is a real loan that has to be paid back with interest.
True but what's to then keep the Fed's from forgiving the Provincial debt and the Province forgiving the Municipal loans. I just can't see it being any other way - likely happens without anyone knowing of course.
 
From downunders link:

"This means that the massive deficit from the Trudeau government is being gobbled up by the Bank of Canada and paid for with what is essentially “printed money”.
 
From downunders link:

"This means that the massive deficit from the Trudeau government is being gobbled up by the Bank of Canada and paid for with what is essentially “printed money”.
Worst case scenario we may all end up Billionaires one day like people in Zimbabwe... and foreign interests could buy up EVERYTHING. I doubt we would get there but we will see Some hardships thats for sure.
 
Some governments are printing a lot more then others...

View attachment 46448

That blip in 2009 was govts trying to mitigate the financial crisis... Have a look where Canada is sitting now.

Bank of Canada becomes world champion in money printing as its assets grow by 456%YoY

edit. added a link to some fairly straight forward info.
Thats a very scary chart. Certainly the people in the gov have the same info, and why is no body saying, "maybe we are spending too much" or "gone to far", especially when this isn't even close to being over yet.
 
Thats a very scary chart. Certainly the people in the gov have the same info, and why is no body saying, "maybe we are spending too much" or "gone to far", especially when this isn't even close to being over yet.
Who's going to be that voice? Big finance that is benefitting from this and doesn't give a crap about the future? News orgs that a benefitting from this and don't give a crap about the future? Finance minister tried to have some restraint and got the axe for not playing along. If JT is willing to chop the legs of smart and trusted friends, nobody is safe. Rating agencies will rapidly downgrade Canada's debt, but what average person understands or cares about that?
 
  1. The wage to living cost ratio is horrid
  2. Renting is just getting more and more expensive
  3. Low interest rates => housing prices will keep increasing


Just do the easy thing and let the next generation deal with this messed up system :)
 
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taking a wheelbarrow of cash to the grocery to pick up a loaf of bread like pre war Germany, not so far fetched maybe
 
taking a wheelbarrow of cash to the grocery to pick up a loaf of bread like pre war Germany, not so far fetched maybe
Supposedly this is not likely to happen due to the inflation + velocity of money???

Idk
 
Worst case scenario we may all end up Billionaires one day like people in Zimbabwe... and foreign interests could buy up EVERYTHING. I doubt we would get there but we will see Some hardships thats for sure.
30 + years ago I surprised someone by commenting I would retire a millionaire. The explanation is I owned a house in Toronto and would have it paid off. A million is still a nice bit of coin but you can't live off the interest any more.

It's created a problem in that the next step, a billionaire is huge. We need and in between name for the next realistic bar.
 
30 + years ago I surprised someone by commenting I would retire a millionaire. The explanation is I owned a house in Toronto and would have it paid off. A million is still a nice bit of coin but you can't live off the interest any more.

It's created a problem in that the next step, a billionaire is huge. We need and in between name for the next realistic bar.

Multi-millionaire.
 
taking a wheelbarrow of cash to the grocery to pick up a loaf of bread like pre war Germany, not so far fetched maybe
I had an instructor in college that had been through that. He rode across Holland with his father and every day the same amount of money bought you half as much bread.
 
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