guzzirider
Well-known member
For Sale in Portugal
This is NOT wether you like this brand or model of motorcycle
This is NOT wether you like this brand or model of motorcycle
Test of your legal knowledge - Why or Why Not should you purchase this Motorcycle
- Thread starter guzzirider
- Start date
You would be buying it sight unseen which in itself is pretty risky, and you'd need to get the title in the (registered!!) mail OR you'd be flying to Portugal and back which will negate the cost savings of not importing it. Either way you'd need to register it in Ontario, in person. And selling it to anyone IN Portugal is probably going to be a big headache, if it's even possible (I dunno if you can restart the clock on the importation process by simply legally riding it across the border?)
Other than that I can't think of any legal pitfalls?
Honestly trying to invoke Cunningham's law here
Other than that I can't think of any legal pitfalls?
Honestly trying to invoke Cunningham's law here
Here is the potential registration and insurance quagmire.
Presumably, this is a Canadian-spec vehicle with a declaration of conformity with CMVSS on the VIN label. It won't be able to be sold to a European resident without going through the whole process of legally importing it into the EU, and given that it lacks the EU declaration of conformity, that's going to be a nightmare, if it is even possible at all (it is not possible to go the other way for any vehicle less than 15 years old). Please note, it is not important whether the vehicle "actually" complies with these standards, What is important is what the "paperwork" says it complies with. Even if the EU and Canadian-spec vehicles are technically identical except for that label ... that label and the underlying documentation is ALL that matters, and this won't have it.
It also won't be able to be sold to a Canadian resident and properly licensed and insured in Ontario with the bike physically in EU, and it would need to be licensed and insured in Ontario in order for an Ontario traveller to ride this bike in another country. In order to properly transfer the registration, it needs a safety inspection by an Ontario workshop that is licensed to do those inspections. Can't do that if the bike is in the EU!
Interesting idea, but don't.
Presumably, this is a Canadian-spec vehicle with a declaration of conformity with CMVSS on the VIN label. It won't be able to be sold to a European resident without going through the whole process of legally importing it into the EU, and given that it lacks the EU declaration of conformity, that's going to be a nightmare, if it is even possible at all (it is not possible to go the other way for any vehicle less than 15 years old). Please note, it is not important whether the vehicle "actually" complies with these standards, What is important is what the "paperwork" says it complies with. Even if the EU and Canadian-spec vehicles are technically identical except for that label ... that label and the underlying documentation is ALL that matters, and this won't have it.
It also won't be able to be sold to a Canadian resident and properly licensed and insured in Ontario with the bike physically in EU, and it would need to be licensed and insured in Ontario in order for an Ontario traveller to ride this bike in another country. In order to properly transfer the registration, it needs a safety inspection by an Ontario workshop that is licensed to do those inspections. Can't do that if the bike is in the EU!
Interesting idea, but don't.
Right! The safety inspection, duh
@Lightcycle has outlined some of this mess before. IIRC there is a timeline to have the bike in country before you have to export it. You can't just keep riding it in country forever. Given the price, if the seller can't find a sucker to buy it, they should throw it in a container and sell it in Canada.
Relax
Well-known member
If you really wanted this bike, I'd work out a deal with the seller to have THEM send it back to Canada first. The trick is doing it in a way that guarantees that he actually does (if he wants you to pay him a deposit), or that you'll honour your commitment (with no deposit).
... and then there's carnet de passage, only valid for one year, needs to be a current, LEGAL registration in it's home country/province
RUN AWAY... someone is trying to pull a fast one on someone that doesn't know the laws... but IF the seller gets desperate enough there is a "shady" way around this... it only involves a little fraud....
RUN AWAY... someone is trying to pull a fast one on someone that doesn't know the laws... but IF the seller gets desperate enough there is a "shady" way around this... it only involves a little fraud....
Relax
Well-known member
The way it's worded implies that to get a CPD, you have to pay a deposit which you forfeit if you don't return the vehicle. I assume that deposit equates to the actual import fees? And if they didn't get a CPD, then they would have had to pay the actual import fees then request a refund once the vehicle has left. In either case, the seller has an incentive to have the bike returned to Canada to get the refund. But it sounds like the fees are already covered for any potential buyer?
The fees the current owner paid are an annual thing, and have to be renewed... ONLY in the current owner's name. To get a CDP in a BUYER's name the bike would have to be in Ontario. CDPs are not transferable.
The rest of it you're reading right. Some countries have HUGE import fees. A buddy took a ZX down to a Carribean island, the import was 300% of the bikes value, and the bike's value was decided by the government.
So we stripped the bike, put it in barrels and shipped it as parts... zero import duty on parts.
And now buddy has a ZX9... on an island with one crappy road, that is about 35km long. COOLEST guy on the island (and gas is about $5/L).
guzzirider
Well-known member
When I was going to ship my Guzzi to Europe in 2019 I had to purchase Green Card Insurance to be able to ride it there.
To do so I had to show ownership.
My original plan was to ship my Suzuki GW250 and leave it there.
After my 3 month stay of 23,000km it would not be worth the cost of shipping back.
Long term storage was expensive as well.
For a resident of the EU to purchase it the cost of taxes, import duties and getting it certified would be more than its value.
I considered giving it to a Breaker but they where not intrested because it was too much trouble.
My best option was to leave it on the side of the road in Estonia.
To do so I had to show ownership.
My original plan was to ship my Suzuki GW250 and leave it there.
After my 3 month stay of 23,000km it would not be worth the cost of shipping back.
Long term storage was expensive as well.
For a resident of the EU to purchase it the cost of taxes, import duties and getting it certified would be more than its value.
I considered giving it to a Breaker but they where not intrested because it was too much trouble.
My best option was to leave it on the side of the road in Estonia.
As someone who shipped a bike to Europe last year, I'm with guzzirider on this. Once you ship it internationally, you're either:
A) Signing up to pay to ship it back
B) Signing up to leave it there in your name forever
C) Hoping some idiot will come along and make your problem his/her problem
Don't be the idiot.
A) Signing up to pay to ship it back
B) Signing up to leave it there in your name forever
C) Hoping some idiot will come along and make your problem his/her problem
Don't be the idiot.
guzzirider
Well-known member
Your insurance does not cover Mexico and I am seeing pink slips saying Only In Effect in Canada
For most of Europe that's not a big deal. You can get green card insurance in a couple business days, and it can be good for days/weeks/months depending on how much you pay.
In my case I was riding 25 days so it just made the most sense to pay for a full month.
guzzirider
Well-known member
Green Card insurance has a maximum of 90 days because you can only stay in the EU for that long without special circumstances.
I got my insurance thru the people shipping the bike.
Fortunately my trip got canceled within 60 days so I got a full refund.
I got my insurance thru the people shipping the bike.
Fortunately my trip got canceled within 60 days so I got a full refund.
Dual-citizenship.
